[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

They then decided to sell the carbon body panels slated for the CSL to M2 and M2C owners to recoup R&D costs from a shelved project. When have they ever offered such elaborate Mperf parts for a M model?

Or... they are actually producing said parts en masse...

The more parts they tool up to produce, the lower the cost for those items. They also can amortize costs across many models. If they actually commit to say, 1000 sets of each item (we know the CF roof may be a hard sell) then it's even more likely that another run of parts at a later date .. or .. committing to large scale production and including 1000 sets for something like a factory run in the future of CS.. or CSL

We already know that the M4 GTS hood shocks were utilized on the M2 performance hood. The brakes are from 5 series. .. WLTP exhaust is being utilized across M4 and M2 comp in Europe .. plus that cool man carbon fiber driveshaft is still an option.. etc etc.

There is no better time than now for BMW to establish the 4 car hierarchy they are speaking of.

Base
Competition
CS
CSL

Also known as competitors for...

Cayman /Boxster

base
S
GTS
GT4

We all know that Porsche is going to bring their cars to the market. Is this the time .. with the M lineup selling more than ever ... with the company as a whole increasing in sales .. with the US Market.. buying M cars like mad ... Is this the time for BMW M to pack up and start thinking about the G line .. ?

What's that Frank V Meel says ? " no comment"

[M3_WC]

I dont know, feel like they would have kept those parts underwraps. It would be a bit underwhelming if they just slap on the same M perf parts, with rear seat delete, roll cage and tune. CSL badge hasnt seen the light of day for over 15 years. You think they will just reuse already released M perf parts. Seems half ass. Leipzig plant doesnt install carbon roofs anyways.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

I dont know, feel like they would have kept those parts underwraps. It would be a bit underwhelming if they just slap on the same M perf parts, with rear seat delete, roll cage and tune. CSL badge hasnt seen the light of day for over 15 years. You think they will just reuse already released M perf parts. Seems half ass. Leipzig plant doesnt install carbon roofs anyways.

You're forgetting the most important feature: approx. 450hp S55 engine.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by Artemis

You're forgetting the most important feature: approx. 450hp S55 engine.

That's not a deal breaker as it's probably a re-used map from the M3/M4 ZCP

People can flash M3/M4 CS map onto the M2 Comp through aftermarket means

Normally I go crazy on limited edition M cars but in this case I think the M2 Comp will be the best one out (limited paint options notwithstanding) of all the variants because of its relatively more affordable price and people can customise it further down the track with factory carbon parts once they got a pay rise

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Artemis

You're forgetting the most important feature: approx. 450hp S55 engine.

454 specifically in the M3/M4 CS..
493 in the M4 GTS via water injection...

[SeanWRT]

The logical theory is that they already built M2 CS, it was the car the M2 competition is with CB hood/roof/fender/tailgate + coilover + 425-444hp tune. They planned to have m2 base keep N55, because M2 base needs nothing to be the hottest selling M.

M2 CS plan was most certainly scrapped, or at least suspended, because:
1) M2 base was forced to upgrade to competition with S55. All CS carbon parts were being sold as MP parts.
2) With M4, everything above Comp package is a ugly failure.

BMW doesn't really know how much a hardcore M with significant price premium would interest the market. Which is why they keep telling us 'we can't comment on future models', in the meanwhile already confirm the four way M hierarchy.

Looking at things from project proposal perspective, why should I (as a project leader) submit a carbon parts bin CS project if these carbon MP parts don't sell well in the first place? Why bother all the R&D in validating a new model? How does CS project improve profitability and/or business growth than selling competition and MP carbon separately as is?

Only thing that can make a change is how competition sales holds on for the remaining F87's 2 model years, which I see is no issue. Comp MY2019/2020 would be just like Base MY2016/2017.

Even if somehow a limited special, CS/CSL whatever it is, is warrantied as MY2020, it would have a bigger problem, being a threat to the ALL NEW G80 M3 release as company's new focus and core model for the length of an entire generation. Does Hamilton, still in his prime, want Alonso, even as old as he is now, as his team mate next year?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Even if somehow a limited special, CS/CSL whatever it is, is warrantied as MY2020, it would have a bigger problem, being a threat to the ALL NEW F80 M3 release as company's new focus and core model for the length of an entire generation.

To crack the code: brief run close to F87 EOP + limited + expensive.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Artemis

To crack the code: brief run close to F87 EOP + limited + expensive.

But, a big question is WHY?

Do they really care the marginal revenue and profit growth if any from a brief production run?

All M2 CS/CSL will do (to BMW) is to take away audience and attention from G80.

Will Porsche announce GT3 and turbo at the same year because 'it's no problem they're for different buyers'?

[Halvie]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

That's not a deal breaker as it's probably a re-used map from the M3/M4 ZCP

People can flash M3/M4 CS map onto the M2 Comp through aftermarket means

Normally I go crazy on limited edition M cars but in this case I think the M2 Comp will be the best one out (limited paint options notwithstanding) of all the variants because of its relatively more affordable price and people can customise it further down the track with factory carbon parts once they got a pay rise

Will there be limited paint options for the CS?

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Halvie

Will there be limited paint options for the CS?

At this point the CS is fictitious. Zero evidence of it existing. If and when you see some test cars running around with camo, you are still at least half year off official announcement. M4 CS test mules were seen 8+ months prior to official announcement.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

The logical theory is that they already built M2 CS, it was the car the M2 competition is with CB hood/roof/fender/tailgate + coilover + 425-444hp tune. They planned to have m2 base keep N55, because M2 base needs nothing to be the hottest selling M.

M2 CS plan was most certainly scrapped, or at least suspended, because:
1) M2 base was forced to upgrade to competition with S55. All CS carbon parts were being sold as MP parts.
2) With M4, everything above Comp package is a ugly failure.

BMW doesn't really know how much a hardcore M with significant price premium would interest the market. Which is why they keep telling us 'we can't comment on future models', in the meanwhile already confirm the four way M hierarchy.

Looking at things from project proposal perspective, why should I (as a project leader) submit a carbon parts bin CS project if these carbon MP parts don't sell well in the first place? Why bother all the R&D in validating a new model? How does CS project improve profitability and/or business growth than selling competition and MP carbon separately as is?

Only thing that can make a change is how competition sales holds on for the remaining F87's 2 model years, which I see is no issue. Comp MY2019/2020 would be just like Base MY2016/2017.

Even if somehow a limited special, CS/CSL whatever it is, is warrantied as MY2020, it would have a bigger problem, being a threat to the ALL NEW G80 M3 release as company's new focus and core model for the length of an entire generation. Does Hamilton, still in his prime, want Alonso, even as old as he is now, as his team mate next year?

The G80 M3 will be a sedan of course. The M4 will be a year later. BMW intentionally strategically puts one platform forward and then the other.


M3 first
M4 next
M2 third


The staggered timing however affects the order on a model change.

[Smindustries]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Will Porsche announce GT3 and turbo at the same year because 'it's no problem they're for different buyers'?

Yes, they will, and have. See MY07 and MY14.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Artemis

To crack the code: brief run close to F87 EOP + limited + expensive.

Kinda like the 1M when the E90M3 was getting close to the end and the E92 had just a few years remaining ? ..

BlackJetE90 Are you a history buff? When during the model run are the majority BMW M special editions run ?

1) beginning ?
2) middle
3) or end ?

[Artemis]

M2 & M2 Competition designer Hussein Al-Attar on colors (source: here):

• Q: "What exterior color do you think shows best the lines of the new M2 Competition?"
• A: "Well if you’re going for a pragmatic, I-can-see-every-line kind of appearance, then Hockenheim Silver is definitely the way to go without being too conservative and still having a funky color for your car. The flashiest color that screams M2 is still the Long Beach Blue. But for a menacing look that shows the character of the car, I would still go for either Black or Mineral Grey, if still offered."

An (official) M2 Competition design sketch: looks like Mineral Grey Metallic, a color not made available for the M2 Competition (source: here) ["Photos" - "Set 4"]):


The M4 GTS was available in Sapphire Black Metallic, Mineral Grey Metallic, Alpine White and Frozen Dark Grey Metallic. Though I've always been a bit reluctant about frozen paint colors, it would be nice if Frozen Dark Grey Metallic returns on a possible M2 variant:

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Artemis

M2 & M2 Competition designer Hussein Al-Attar on colors (source: here):

• Q: "What exterior color do you think shows best the lines of the new M2 Competition?"
• A: "Well if you’re going for a pragmatic, I-can-see-every-line kind of appearance, then Hockenheim Silver is definitely the way to go without being too conservative and still having a funky color for your car. The flashiest color that screams M2 is still the Long Beach Blue. But for a menacing look that shows the character of the car, I would still go for either Black or Mineral Grey, if still offered."

An (official) M2 Competition design sketch: looks like Mineral Grey Metallic, a color not made available for the M2 Competition (source: here) ["Photos" - "Set 4"]):


The M4 GTS was available in Sapphire Black Metallic, Mineral Grey Metallic, Alpine White and Frozen Dark Grey Metallic. Though I've always been a bit reluctant about frozen paint colors, it would be nice if Frozen Dark Grey Metallic returns on a possible M2 variant:

His original quote didn't end in "if still offered", that was added shortly after I referenced it here. Being that b_m_w_b_l_o_g seems to follow me it's not a stretch that they read my post and made the change shortly afterwards. My issue with this is it should have been posted as [if still offered] to indicate that it was not actually said by Hussein, but is implied, at least from the journalists point. Knowing that in the original quote he didn't say "if..", well I find that rather interesting and maybe that's a clue to something.

[SeanWRT]

Over these days, I have a strong feeling down the road 48V will be a standard technology, anything without it is instantly outdated AND INFERIOR. 48V, carrying all the auxilliary/burden, is so significant in convey crank power down to ground. I suspect at the time of G gen LCI, 48V driven turbo (at low rpm) will be a trend as Merc already does it, which opens the door for using bigger turbo on high performance applications, for higher efficiency at any given boost without introducing turbo lag and reduce heat as well.

48V is exactly why many believe internal combust engine can still live for many years to come.

Anything with F platform won't have 48V. That's why I don't have faith in hardcore M variant with F any more.

[Mark 1M]

I have just spoken to a friend thats well up at BMW there will be an M2 CSL end of 2019.
it will be expensive and the other thing will be the limited numbers who will get one?


With every one wanting one to make money on and not drive

[M3_WC]

^
I can only imagine what it is going to cost and how hard it will be to get an allocation. If it is anywhere near what I think it is going to cost. I'd rather go straight to the Porsche dealer and get a clean low mileage cpo Cayman GT4.

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by Mark 1M

I have just spoken to a friend thats well up at BMW there will be an M2 CSL end of 2019.
it will be expensive and the other thing will be the limited numbers who will get one?


With every one wanting one to make money on and not drive

Will this be called the M2 CS? Will it be revealed later in 2018?

[Mark 1M]

Originally Posted by RPM33

Will this be called the M2 CS? Will it be revealed later in 2018?

he only said there will be a csl with cage and no back seats limited edition

[N54]

Originally Posted by Mark 1M

he only said there will be a csl with cage and no back seats limited edition

DCT only ???

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Interested to know whether these 2016 M2 MotoGP Safety Car goodies are reserved for 'further progress' (source: see here):





For the record (December 2017):

That would be awesome...if you could buy an M2 like this.
But it would probably be limited and overpriced. Then I would rather build my current MY17 M2 to this spec...if one day my M2 would not be my daily anymore