[SoCalRob]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

All I'm saying is that a small, almost insignificant increase in base price is all that happens, no one will hesitate to buy an S55 M2.

Did you leave out the word "if" somewhere in your reply? -scr

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by SoCalRob

Did you leave out the word "if" somewhere in your reply? -scr

Well yeah. A rather large if. Maybe they'll offer a few versions, one with an S65 and 14mpg.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

If you call BMW today, they will quote "closed deck" straight out of the technical training manual. Could it be that the official manual is more accurate than that leaked one? Omg such misinfo!

The potential misinformation not only surrounds the deck design.

There had been material presented on

1. M2's N55 had its spray-on cylinder liners replaced with cast-iron ones but the normal N55 already had cast iron cylinder liners and the technical training document didn't identify any modifications

2. Certain magazines (not BMW) stated that M2 uses the forged crankshaft and conrords from the S55. However the part numbers are the same for the M2's N55 and the normal N55 and the technical training document did not identify any changes on these parts.

Training manuals are written by engineers so they are much less likely to have incorrect information than marketing materials like we find on a website or something presented in a magazine by journalists.

I can only find one technical training document and am not aware of any other official training document on the M2 yet.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

The potential misinformation not only surrounds the deck design.

There had been material presented on

1. M2's N55 had its spray-on cylinder liners replaced with cast-iron ones but the normal N55 already had cast iron cylinder liners and the technical training document didn't identify any modifications

2. Certain magazines (not BMW) stated that M2 uses the forged crankshaft and conrords from the S55. However the part numbers are the same for the M2's N55 and the normal N55 and the technical training document did not identify any changes on these parts.

Training manuals are written by engineers so they are much less likely to have incorrect information than marketing materials like we find on a website or something presented in a magazine by journalists.

I can only find one technical training document and am not aware of any other official training document on the M2 yet.

Consider all of the sources you have chosen to use. Are ANY official BMW sources? Maybe, just maybe, BMW Group would be the first place to start looking for info rather than other, non official sources? You could be chasing your tail indefinitely if you only look for descrepancies from third party materials or from non official materials. The fact is that the latest engineering training manual states "closed deck" for the N55B30T0 engine. This was quoted to me by a BMW employee just last month, as read out loud straight from that document. She was not authorized to send out a copy as it was for "internal use only". I even asked her for confirmation that it was from engineering rather than marketing to which she replied "engineering".

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Consider all of the sources you have chosen to use. Are ANY official BMW sources? Maybe, just maybe, BMW Group would be the first place to start looking for info rather than other, non official sources? You could be chasing your tail indefinitely if you only look for descrepancies from third party materials or from non official materials. The fact is that the latest engineering training manual states "closed deck" for the N55B30T0 engine. This was quoted to me by a BMW employee just last month, as read out loud straight from that document. She was not authorized to send out a copy as it was for "internal use only". I even asked her for confirmation that it was from engineering rather than marketing to which she replied "engineering".

It doesn't looks like you have read thoroughly.

We are talking further than the deck design as I have mentioned in the earlier post.

Just go through it again and the technical training document (link post earlier in this thread).

BMW employee means very little to me unless they are involved in the M2 project.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

It doesn't looks like you have read thoroughly.

We are talking further than the deck design as I have mentioned in the earlier post.

Just go through it again and the technical training document (link post earlier in this thread).

BMW employee means very little to me unless they are involved in the M2 project.

Who is hosting the link?

Is BMW accountable for the contents of that document?

[reppucci]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

The potential misinformation not only surrounds the deck design.

There had been material presented on

1. M2's N55 had its spray-on cylinder liners replaced with cast-iron ones but the normal N55 already had cast iron cylinder liners and the technical training document didn't identify any modifications

2. Certain magazines (not BMW) stated that M2 uses the forged crankshaft and conrords from the S55. However the part numbers are the same for the M2's N55 and the normal N55 and the technical training document did not identify any changes on these parts.

Training manuals are written by engineers so they are much less likely to have incorrect information than marketing materials like we find on a website or something presented in a magazine by journalists.

I can only find one technical training document and am not aware of any other official training document on the M2 yet.

Again for clarification purposes....Assuming the tech document you refer to is

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/att...2&d=1457027357

(it seems to be fairly accurate, although not found on an "official" bmw site)

then you are correct. I cannot find any other.

here is the cover page:


This document only outlines differences between the M2 N55B30T0 and the M235i N55B30O0 not the vanilla N55B30M0 found in the early 335i.

see page 19 (last line bottom of page):


What this document states as engine components changed only from the N55B30O0 M235i motor is substantiated by realoem part numbers.

In fact looking through this document I am not sure I can find anything which is incorrect, nor any pages, or paragraphs missing. So it seems pretty comprehensive and proper to me.
Even the tach is correct! with 7000 rpm redline


CAVEATS:
this did not come off an "official BMW site."

Page one: BIMMERFORUM.com and

are both stamps added to the original PDF file.

There is no "owner". The file has a creation date of 3/3/2016. Metadata date is 2/19/2016. Could be when the Bimmerforum.com stamp was added.

FWIW....the remainder of the 72 page document seems to be original and unmodified with BMWGlobalPro Font utilized throughout along with Helvetica.

[swagon]

Y'all never gonna close the deck on this subject, are you?

Has anyone contacted BMW AG or M GmbH to put this to an end?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by reppucci

the tech document [...] I cannot find any other.

M2 Technical Training (BMW reference: "BV-72/Technical Training"):

• a US version
• a non-US version

Minor changes (e.g. "DCT" instead of "DKG", an extra paragraph about winter tires, etc.), but no single word about deck design.

On page 19 of both versions:

"The N55B30T0 engine is the power plant for the F87 BMW M2. It is a further development of the N55B30O0 engine from the BMW M135i and BMW M235i, which is familiar from the current BMW 1 Series and 2 Series models.
This document describes only the differences compared with the N55B30O0."

[reppucci]

Originally Posted by Artemis

M2 Technical Training (BMW reference: "BV-72/Technical Training"):

• a US version
• a non-US version

Minor changes (e.g. "DCT" instead of "DKG", an extra paragraph about winter tires, etc.), but no single word about deck design.

On page 19 of both versions:

"The N55B30T0 engine is the power plant for the F87 BMW M2. It is a further development of the N55B30O0 engine from the BMW M135i and BMW M235i, which is familiar from the current BMW 1 Series and 2 Series models.
This document describes only the differences compared with the N55B30O0."

Thank you. I forgot about the Bimmerfest version.

[reppucci]

Originally Posted by reppucci

Thank you. I forgot about the Bimmerfest version.

Also in case anyone has an interest, beyond deck status, here is a link to the BMW tech bulletin about the N55B30M0 engine which preceded the N55B30O0 engine found in the M235i and the N55B30T0 found in the M2. Also added the S55 tech bulletin. Everything you want to know about these motors.

Here: N55B30M0 tech bulletin

and here: S55 tech bulletin

[patrickoccasionallydrives]

Originally Posted by reppucci

BMW gave the N55 a forged crankshaft, forged connecting rods and newer piston rings... more confusion Crankshaft is identical between M2 N55B30T0 and M235i N55B30O0 11212334334 ...as are the connecting rods 11247586492...piston and rings however are unique to M2 N55B30T0!

according to the "Comparison of the N55 engine/S55 engine" section of the s55 technical document you linked in this thread, the connecting rods were unchanged from the n55. that might explain why the connecting rods were unchanged?

[Gatte]

So, I just heard back from one of the dealerships that I had contacted. The SA told me that the foreman was able to put in the VIN for an M2 that they have on order and pull up whether or not it's open deck or closed deck.

He told me that it is in fact an Open Deck. I asked him if he was sure and if he could send me a picture of the application/screen they were using. He told me that his foreman was not comfortable sending that picture but the application that he was using was called Dealer Speed. I know that this application is available to other people as well. Need someone else to check and confirm where they see it.

I understand that this is not a very good source but hey, BMW of NA told me that the best way for me to find out about the engine in the M2 was to go to a dealership and ask them. That's exactly what I did.

[oldmanstyle]

Originally Posted by Gatte

So, I just heard back from one of the dealerships that I had contacted. The SA told me that the foreman was able to put in the VIN for an M2 that they have on order and pull up whether or not it's open deck or closed deck.

He told me that it is in fact an Open Deck. I asked him if he was sure and if he could send me a picture of the application/screen they were using. He told me that his foreman was not comfortable sending that picture but the application that he was using was called Dealer Speed.

If he needed a VIN, it sounds like he was pulling up a parts diagram and referencing the pictures. Earlier in the thread it was noted that the M2 block is not available separately. Maybe someone can verify what Dealer Speed is?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Gatte

So, I just heard back from one of the dealerships that I had contacted. The SA told me that the foreman was able to put in the VIN for an M2 that they have on order and pull up whether or not it's open deck or closed deck.
He told me that it is in fact an Open Deck. I asked him if he was sure and if he could send me a picture of the application/screen they were using. He told me that his foreman was not comfortable sending that picture but the application that he was using was called Dealer Speed. I know that this application is available to other people as well. Need someone else to check and confirm where they see it.
I understand that this is not a very good source but hey, BMW of NA told me that the best way for me to find out about the engine in the M2 was to go to a dealership and ask them. That's exactly what I did.

If the dealership ain't (deemed to be) allowed by BMW to send you the M2 deck screenshot, you absolutely do the right thing by not inducing them to release it to you. We're BMW enthusiasts and it's an interesting debate, but it cannot be the purpose of any person or dealership getting into hot water with BMW or feeling uncomfortable with the situation.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Gatte

So, I just heard back from one of the dealerships that I had contacted. The SA told me that the foreman was able to put in the VIN for an M2 that they have on order and pull up whether or not it's open deck or closed deck.

He told me that it is in fact an Open Deck.

Which dealer told you this?

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Which dealer told you this?

PM'ed you.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by oldmanstyle

If he needed a VIN, it sounds like he was pulling up a parts diagram and referencing the pictures. Earlier in the thread it was noted that the M2 block is not available separately. Maybe someone can verify what Dealer Speed is?

Dealer speed was something someone else had used to help me with some delivery related information when I was waiting for delivery of my M235i. Dealerships should have access to this. I am not sure exactly who it was on this forum but he was able to help me with something BMW of NA was not able to help me with.

Someone on this forum should know more about this. I'll try looking at some of my older posts but will be difficult.

[Artemis]

And beware about the M2 engine block diagram shown on public BMW parts websites: though an open deck design is displayed, it also indicates "Part not available separately" and no BMW part number is mentioned. Hence, no proper conclusion can be inferred on the basis of that diagram:

[Gatte]

Found the person who helped me with dealer speed before:

lloydaustin : Sir, Where art thou ??

We need your help with something very very important.

P.S: Also found a program that guys waiting on deliveries on the west coast can use to capture pictures of the ship carrying the car passing through the Panama Canal. Pretty neat.

[reppucci]

Originally Posted by Artemis

And beware about the M2 engine block diagram shown on public BMW parts websites: though an open deck design is displayed, it also indicates "Part not available separately" and no BMW part number is mentioned. Hence, no proper conclusion can be inferred on the basis of that diagram:

Attachment 1533863

^^This is a BIG Caveat! Thank you Artemis

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by Gatte

So, I just heard back from one of the dealerships that I had contacted. The SA told me that the foreman was able to put in the VIN for an M2 that they have on order and pull up whether or not it's open deck or closed deck.

He told me that it is in fact an Open Deck. I asked him if he was sure and if he could send me a picture of the application/screen they were using. He told me that his foreman was not comfortable sending that picture but the application that he was using was called Dealer Speed. I know that this application is available to other people as well. Need someone else to check and confirm where they see it.

I understand that this is not a very good source but hey, BMW of NA told me that the best way for me to find out about the engine in the M2 was to go to a dealership and ask them. That's exactly what I did.

I have DealerSpeed...what am I looking for? I can get a chassis number from an M2 that we have sold, but where am I looking? (I could maybe ask our shop foreman where to look?)