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      04-21-2017, 01:45 PM   #1
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R&T: A 400-HP, Lightweight BMW M2 CSL Could Arrive in 2018

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...mw-m2-cs-2018/

I may have to trade the M240i in the next two years.....
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      04-21-2017, 01:51 PM   #2
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seems sick but why even detune it? why not just put a full blown s55 in it? that would really make it a better car then the m3/m4. I guess BMW only cares about retaining sales in all M models and not making the absolute best driving machine (m2 with full S55)
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      04-21-2017, 01:54 PM   #3
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So this one will be even more overpriced? Awesome, I'll take two.
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      04-21-2017, 02:21 PM   #4
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Yeah...they don't know what they're talking about. The recent press release from the M4CS reveal stated that there will be a new line of ClubSport (CS) models, slotted between the regular cars and the balls out GTS cars.

This CSL thing doesn't make any sense, nor does it fit in with the BMW product pipeline posted to the forums not long ago. And to add to that, in the f'ng article, even they refer to it as the M2 CS....
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      04-21-2017, 02:21 PM   #5
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This provides no evidence of a CSL. We all know the CS is coming but anyone who says a CSL is coming as well is basing it purely on speculation.
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      04-21-2017, 02:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmzanatta View Post
Yeah...they don't know what they're talking about. The recent press release from the M4CS reveal stated that there will be a new line of ClubSport (CS) models, slotted between the regular cars and the balls out GTS cars.

This CSL thing doesn't make any sense, nor does it fit in with the BMW product pipeline posted to the forums not long ago. And to add to that, in the f'ng article, even they refer to it as the M2 CS....
Let's put it this way. The CS, CSL, GTS, LTW are all marketing tools/labels now. Especially since there is the competition package. Which I believe was started because we in the US couldn't and didn't get the e46 M3 CSL. And with the e90 M3, they produced the CRT, which was basically the e92 GTS minus the track goodies.
So what happens, is that BMW has over complicated things with too many acronyms/labels and now are confusing themselves and customers.
They now must create order. Logic would dictate that they now have 5 trim levels:
Base model, Comp Package, CS, CSL, GTS. What has now happened is that they will find it hard to find a place to put a CSL level car within the M4 and M2 range. They have to figure out how to make it look different, and the horsepower level, and the pricing. And then how will the competition respond as well.
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      04-21-2017, 02:58 PM   #7
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Beware: that article was published almost 5 months ago.
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      04-21-2017, 04:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmzanatta View Post
Yeah...they don't know what they're talking about. The recent press release from the M4CS reveal stated that there will be a new line of ClubSport (CS) models, slotted between the regular cars and the balls out GTS cars.

This CSL thing doesn't make any sense, nor does it fit in with the BMW product pipeline posted to the forums not long ago. And to add to that, in the f'ng article, even they refer to it as the M2 CS....
Bad information. Inconsistency like this only creates confusion
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      04-21-2017, 04:50 PM   #9
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The issue we have today is that in general the standard car of the M4 has a lot of lightweight material technology incorporated. So when the next stage of evolution occurs ( M4 GTS ) they add more lightweight materials and then bring the (M4 CS) with the M4 GTS complexities removed.

In general the M4 is effectively a light car compared to its competitors because it is also a showcase for BMWs carbon fibre proficiency.
The dilemma is how low can they go in terms of taking out further weight?

If we look at the M4 GTS and CS from a birds eye view the entire top section of the car -hood-roof-trunk is CFRP which is an achievement for BMW and its proficient and significant investment to increase its competitive edge over its competitors.
Testament to this is the adoption of a CFRP roof which has been available albeit limited from the M3CSL to be introduced on the M3 E92 and E63 M6 and onwards.
This is significant because Audi has introduced a CF roof with its new RS5 so they are about ten years plus behind.

With the M2 they can and will remove weight but it will be again possibly a staged process. The M2 CS will capitalise on the attention M4 CS is receiving. In philosophy they are the same but the M2 CS will have its character and appeal enhanced which would probably lead the M2 CS to be more awaited than the M4 CS but both cars should not disappoint and provide exactly what you expect.
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      04-21-2017, 04:58 PM   #10
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Would it be within reason to fit the standard M5 brakes onto the M2CS? Looked like a test mule was equipped with an M5 setup. I want it.
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      04-21-2017, 06:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The issue we have today is that in general the standard car of the M4 has a lot of lightweight material technology incorporated. So when the next stage of evolution occurs ( M4 GTS ) they add more lightweight materials and then bring the (M4 CS) with the M4 GTS complexities removed.

In general the M4 is effectively a light car compared to its competitors because it is also a showcase for BMWs carbon fibre proficiency.
The dilemma is how low can they go in terms of taking out further weight?

If we look at the M4 GTS and CS from a birds eye view the entire top section of the car -hood-roof-trunk is CFRP which is an achievement for BMW and its proficient and significant investment to increase its competitive edge over its competitors.
Testament to this is the adoption of a CFRP roof which has been available albeit limited from the M3CSL to be introduced on the M3 E92 and E63 M6 and onwards.
This is significant because Audi has introduced a CF roof with its new RS5 so they are about ten years plus behind.

With the M2 they can and will remove weight but it will be again possibly a staged process. The M2 CS will capitalise on the attention M4 CS is receiving. In philosophy they are the same but the M2 CS will have its character and appeal enhanced which would probably lead the M2 CS to be more awaited than the M4 CS but both cars should not disappoint and provide exactly what you expect.
Carbon Fiber was used in F1 cars long before the E46 M3 CSL. BMW was first in applying that technology on road going cars which is impressive. Since then, BMW has used carbon fiber exactly the same way on their M3/M4 cars without any innovation. The innovation with respect to that technology more or less stopped with the E46 M3 CSL. Just applying that technology on more similar parts of a car is not very impressive. What I am trying to say is that the E46 CSL was innovative from a carbon fiber point of view and not the M4 CS.

It would appear that the customers that BMW seems to be going after are those who value performance over comfort and appearance based on the spartan interior in the M4 CS. However, they seem to expect the same customers to pay $10K for OLED lights when they probably could've spent that money on something else to actually improve performance.

The M4 CS looks like a car that someone would put together lazily while doing the easiest things that can be done to justify a steep price hike. This is based on the inclusion of the cup 2 tires, GTS hood, GTS front lip (Partial), OLED lights etc. whilst not adding anything significant that increases performance.
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      04-21-2017, 06:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne1man35 View Post
seems sick but why even detune it? why not just put a full blown s55 in it? that would really make it a better car then the m3/m4. I guess BMW only cares about retaining sales in all M models and not making the absolute best driving machine (m2 with full S55)

Thinking they needed to do something to the current M2 to separate it further from the M240i. Cars are too similar performance wise (not track) w/ the day to day use going to the M240i.

I added a Dinan Stage 1 to my M240i and cannot imagine a M2 being any faster.

Even with a detuned S55, it will likely be quicker than the M3/4 anyway. Now the M2 w/ DCT does 4.0 0-60 to the 3.9 by the bigger M cars. Surely the new M2 (whatever) will shave another .1 or two off that time).
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      04-21-2017, 06:42 PM   #13
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I can imagine the "track focused" version being even firmer in ride quality, not sure that part would be an upgrade. Hopefully they will put in an adjustable suspension. This car will be really expensive and limited in production so not something I am interested in. I have my M2, I want to add to my garage instead of swapping versions of the same car. M2 and Cayman GTS sounds like a nice little combo.
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      04-21-2017, 06:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
In general the M4 is effectively a light car compared to its competitors because it is also a showcase for BMWs carbon fibre proficiency.
The dilemma is how low can they go in terms of taking out further weight?
1. Cool: equip the M4 with a manual gearbox and BMW shaves 40 kg off at once.
Name:  M4_Weight.jpg
Views: 3005
Size:  8.2 KB
Tip: do the same for the M2 CS, don't fit it with Michelin Pilot Cup 2 semi-slicks, and the M2 CS Nürburgring laptime will not step (too hard) on M4 CS toes.

2. Sneaky with statistics: Cayman GT4 fuel tank: 55-litre stock - 64-litre as a no cost option. No impact on boot space. Needless to say that most GT4's got the optional 64 liter fuel tank. 997.2 RS: 67-litre stock - 90-litre no cost option. Wondering why Porsche does this ? Answer: because curb weight measurement in the EU is based on the fuel tank being filled to 90% of its capacity; using a smaller tank allows Porsche to shave some extra weight off the official weight on the official spec sheet.
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      04-21-2017, 10:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The issue we have today is that in general the standard car of the M4 has a lot of lightweight material technology incorporated. So when the next stage of evolution occurs ( M4 GTS ) they add more lightweight materials and then bring the (M4 CS) with the M4 GTS complexities removed.

In general the M4 is effectively a light car compared to its competitors because it is also a showcase for BMWs carbon fibre proficiency.
The dilemma is how low can they go in terms of taking out further weight?

If we look at the M4 GTS and CS from a birds eye view the entire top section of the car -hood-roof-trunk is CFRP which is an achievement for BMW and its proficient and significant investment to increase its competitive edge over its competitors.
Testament to this is the adoption of a CFRP roof which has been available albeit limited from the M3CSL to be introduced on the M3 E92 and E63 M6 and onwards.
This is significant because Audi has introduced a CF roof with its new RS5 so they are about ten years plus behind.

With the M2 they can and will remove weight but it will be again possibly a staged process. The M2 CS will capitalise on the attention M4 CS is receiving. In philosophy they are the same but the M2 CS will have its character and appeal enhanced which would probably lead the M2 CS to be more awaited than the M4 CS but both cars should not disappoint and provide exactly what you expect.
It's a little hard to decipher these complicated marketing metaphor...

Are you saying the M2CS has a 6MT as standard and will be a fun car like the 1M
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      04-22-2017, 01:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
It's a little hard to decipher these complicated marketing metaphor...

Are you saying the M2CS has a 6MT as standard and will be a fun car like the 1M
I hope so. My M2 DCT is certainly not a fun car. At all.
So I think the M2 CS won't be a rougher more track focused car than the M2.


Cheers
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      04-22-2017, 02:07 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne1man35 View Post
seems sick but why even detune it? why not just put a full blown s55 in it? that would really make it a better car then the m3/m4. I guess BMW only cares about retaining sales in all M models and not making the absolute best driving machine (m2 with full S55)
Yes, and it makes perfect sense on a for a corporate mindset
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      04-22-2017, 11:51 AM   #18
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old news, no csl coming, cs is all but confirmed coming as dealers have started taking names for lists. full s55? when they say detuned they are going to change ecu mapping for the most part and thats something the average enthusiast is going to change anyway. No doubt you'll be able to get 500whp from the same s55 in the M2.

Now the real question, how much extra is all this going to cost.
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      04-22-2017, 11:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The issue we have today is that in general the standard car of the M4 has a lot of lightweight material technology incorporated. So when the next stage of evolution occurs ( M4 GTS ) they add more lightweight materials and then bring the (M4 CS) with the M4 GTS complexities removed.

In general the M4 is effectively a light car compared to its competitors because it is also a showcase for BMWs carbon fibre proficiency.
The dilemma is how low can they go in terms of taking out further weight?

If we look at the M4 GTS and CS from a birds eye view the entire top section of the car -hood-roof-trunk is CFRP which is an achievement for BMW and its proficient and significant investment to increase its competitive edge over its competitors.
Testament to this is the adoption of a CFRP roof which has been available albeit limited from the M3CSL to be introduced on the M3 E92 and E63 M6 and onwards.
This is significant because Audi has introduced a CF roof with its new RS5 so they are about ten years plus behind.

With the M2 they can and will remove weight but it will be again possibly a staged process. The M2 CS will capitalise on the attention M4 CS is receiving. In philosophy they are the same but the M2 CS will have its character and appeal enhanced which would probably lead the M2 CS to be more awaited than the M4 CS but both cars should not disappoint and provide exactly what you expect.
Can we expect the same price difference in % between the M2 and the M2 CS as there is between the regular M4 and the M4 CS?
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      04-22-2017, 12:15 PM   #20
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Good lord enough already. M2. M2 CS. M2 GTS. M2 CSL. All so damn similar. At this point BMW is just making the slightest of tweaks or slapping stick-on CF parts and calling it a special edition. Brilliant revenue scheme but utterly ridiculous for consumers.
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      05-08-2017, 12:12 AM   #21
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What is this? another PS I guess.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Grey Dove; 05-08-2017 at 12:51 AM.. Reason: To hasty lol
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      05-08-2017, 03:20 AM   #22
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What is this? another PS I guess.
Yup:
https://www.behance.net/gallery/50197617/BMWM2-CSL
http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1381490

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