[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by ric124

Also isn't the s55 a tuned N55 and if the M2's N55 is really a closed deck then doesn't that technically make it a detuned S55?

A big IF with this one

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ric124

Also isn't the s55 a tuned N55 and if the M2's N55 is really a closed deck then doesn't that technically make it a detuned S55?

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

A big IF with this one

Conclusive material proof whether the N55B30T0 engine is either 'open deck' or 'closed deck' has not surfaced yet over here. For the pretty animated discussion re that topic: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1249031. The truth is still out there: if someone opened the M2 engine in the meantime, feel free to let us all know in that dedicated thread what deck structure you discovered.

But to get back to the essence: BMW M decided to retool the N55B30O0 (M235i - open deck) instead of detuning the S55B30T0 (M3/M4 - closed deck): the N55B30T0 (base M2). 'Retooling' in the sense of keeping the main structure, but adding/replacing some parts.

2016: exit the M235i + enter the M240i, trespassing the M2 comfort zone. Let's see whether BMW ups the ante for the M2. If the M3/M4 gets a (mild) power bump during its LCI next Spring, there's some extra room for getting the M2 some extra oomph too. And if BMW toys with the idea to endow an M2 variant with M3/M4 output, it can afford to ask M3/M4 money for it too if it keeps quantities deliberately low (to avoid cannibalizing M3/M4 sales - different concept).

Trespassing comfort zones within the hierarchy ? The short-lived BMW 1M and Porsche Cayman GT4 proved that there's definitely a market for 'special delivery' pocket rockets + it's a fairly easy way to further boost the brand image.

[ClothSeats]

In the M2 press release they mention it is a closed deck design:

Lightweight construction and rigidity

The new BMW M2's newly developed, three-litre six-cylinder engine represents a symbiosis of exceptional output and outstanding economy. The lightweight, thermodynamically optimised, all-aluminium unit is very rigid due to its closed-deck design - which means that the cylinder water jacket is closed at the top. This enables higher cylinder pressures for improved power output. The cylinder liners further decrease the weight of the six-cylinder engine and reduce internal friction.

[WAY]

Originally Posted by bim2er

The US did get the 3.0 in '95 with 240 HP and the 3.2 in '96, still limited to 240 HP, but with a little more torque.

I just looked it up on Wikipedia. You guys got robbed badly! The 3.2 that the rest of world got was sensational and a lot more powerful!

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by WAY

I just looked it up on Wikipedia. You guys got robbed badly! The 3.2 that the rest of world got was sensational and a lot more powerful!

Yup we never got the real S50, wasn't until the E46 that we got a true M engine in the M3.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by WAY

I just looked it up on Wikipedia. You guys got robbed badly! The 3.2 that the rest of world got was sensational and a lot more powerful!

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Yup we never got the real S50, wasn't until the E46 that we got a true M engine in the M3.

Yup, for MY1996, BMW M replaced the E36 M3 3.0 with the faster and more refined 3.2-liter version:

• EURO market: new S50 B32 engine, an evolution of the S50 B30 + 6MT + detail refinements to the chassis + a few cosmetic alterations;
• U.S. (and later Canadian) market: S52 engine (own powerplant) + ASC+T traction control + chassis upgrades + a few cosmetic alterations.

More details summarized here:

• E36 M3 3.0: http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=14
• E36 M3 3.2: http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=15

You U.S. citizens don't want such history from happening again with the M2, don't you ?

[ZilberGrau ZHP]

All the engine stuff is fine- but I want a CARBON FIBER ROOF option dammit! -

[M2wolf]

Originally Posted by ZilberGrau ZHP

All the engine stuff is fine- but I want a CARBON FIBER ROOF option dammit! -

It's quite likely be on the M2 CSL/GTS in limited numbers.

I can see a ZCP edition out in 2018.

[quikM2]

I want to post the same thing I posted a few pages ago just so I can refer back to it when I get to say the "I told you so" everyone wants to say... the GM of my dealership just returned from headquarters and executive meetings. He being no nonsense and doesn't make things up or speculate related exactly what he learned at HQ with no less and no more. The MY18 M2 will not be affected by the coming 2 series LCI but will receive very minor cosmetic changes. The example he used was LED tails. the MY19 M2 will no longer offer an M2 and will only offer an M2CSL. No other information was provided by HQ as of last week to them. I'm certain this is the unfortunate non exciting truth and all the speculation of S55 and new B58 are nothing more than fantasy rumors brought to life and fueled on bimmerpost.

If I'm wrong I will be mildly annoyed for a few minutes and the move on with my life and my 2017 M2 (with a sunroof to make a small dig at you americans... but then apologize.. sorry thats rude)

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by ric124

With the M3 LCI already out with only cosmetic changes, I don't see them changing the engine on the M4. I also doubt they will change the engine on the M2 for LCI and it's sad the some people are speculating this from exhaust tips.

Also isn't the s55 a tuned N55 and if the M2's N55 is really a closed deck then doesn't that technically make it a detuned S55?

Not really, there are physical differences in the internals and turbos (2 vs 1 etc), it's not just tuning.

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by quikM2

I want to post the same thing I posted a few pages ago just so I can refer back to it when I get to say the "I told you so" everyone wants to say... the GM of my dealership just returned from headquarters and executive meetings. He being no nonsense and doesn't make things up or speculate related exactly what he learned at HQ with no less and no more. The MY18 M2 will not be affected by the coming 2 series LCI but will receive very minor cosmetic changes. The example he used was LED tails. the MY19 M2 will no longer offer an M2 and will only offer an M2CSL. No other information was provided by HQ as of last week to them. I'm certain this is the unfortunate non exciting truth and all the speculation of S55 and new B58 are nothing more than fantasy rumors brought to life and fueled on bimmerpost.

If I'm wrong I will be mildly annoyed for a few minutes and the move on with my life and my 2017 M2 (with a sunroof to make a small dig at you americans... but then apologize.. sorry thats rude)

Weren't you (Canadians) also told that you wouldn't get the idrive 5.
I assume you have it now ?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ClothSeats

In the M2 press release they mention it is a closed deck design:

Perfectly aware of that information. Merely speaking for myself, I ain't convinced by that 'closed deck' reference (though would like it to be true, as it's a benefit).

Catch my drift:

• as we know, the X4 M40i and M2 share the N55B30T0 engine;
• the BMW Germany press releases of October 2015 regarding the X4 M40i and M2 featured initially very much indeed the 'closed-deck' layout reference;
• however, BMW Germany updated both these press releases in February 2016: the 'closed deck' reference was removed (M2: look here - X4 M40i look here);
• no single word about the alleged 'closed deck' layout of the N55B30O0 in the M2 Technical Training which outlines the main differences between the M235i and M2; if it's worth mentioning the deck layout in a press release, then for sure it would be mentioned in the technical training too (as also happened with the M3/M4 Technical Training: look here);
• nevertheless, the 'closed deck' reference is still around in some other press releases; unclear why it was not removed everywhere.

Some say to have inquired and gotten confirmation from a BMW US source that the N55B30T0 engine features a 'closed deck' layout, though cannot explain why BMW Germany removed that reference from its press releases. Some argue that this may have been done to push the 'closed deck' layout as a special feature (marketing) argument for the B58 engine sporting the M140i and M240i (which features indisputably a 'closed deck' layout), though I don't buy that argument as sound explanation.

Bottom-line: two camps disagreeing, apart from agreeing that there is inconsistency. Until proved otherwise by someone opening the M2 engine, I continue to believe that the N55B30T0 sporting the current M2 and X4 M40i have an 'open deck' layout. If you happen to hate me for bringing this up again, well, then so be it.

For possible further comments regarding that 'deck' topic, please post in the dedicated thread (http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1249031) rather than in this thread.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by quikM2

I want to post the same thing I posted a few pages ago just so I can refer back to it when I get to say the "I told you so" everyone wants to say...

Appreciate the info, but it's just a very small data point carrying little weight when considering the historical accuracy of dealer related info, including model changes.

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by Artemis

2016: exit the M235i + enter the M240i, trespassing the M2 comfort zone. Let's see whether BMW ups the ante for the M2. If the M3/M4 gets a (mild) power bump during its LCI next Spring, there's some extra room for getting the M2 some extra oomph too. And if BMW toys with the idea to endow an M2 variant with M3/M4 output, it can afford to ask M3/M4 money for it too if it keeps quantities deliberately low (to avoid cannibalizing M3/M4 sales - different concept).

Trespassing comfort zones within the hierarchy ? The short-lived BMW 1M and Porsche Cayman GT4 proved that there's definitely a market for 'special delivery' pocket rockets + it's a fairly easy way to further boost the brand image.

Well said Artemis!!

Need to decide soon whether I am doubling down on modding my e92 m3 or saving up for the next great thing (eyes on m2 variant), ball is in your court BMW!

[N54]

Assuming a CS / CSL / GTS is released do we think it will be DCT only?

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by quikM2

I want to post the same thing I posted a few pages ago just so I can refer back to it when I get to say the "I told you so" everyone wants to say... the GM of my dealership just returned from headquarters and executive meetings. He being no nonsense and doesn't make things up or speculate related exactly what he learned at HQ with no less and no more. The MY18 M2 will not be affected by the coming 2 series LCI but will receive very minor cosmetic changes. The example he used was LED tails. the MY19 M2 will no longer offer an M2 and will only offer an M2CSL. No other information was provided by HQ as of last week to them. I'm certain this is the unfortunate non exciting truth and all the speculation of S55 and new B58 are nothing more than fantasy rumors brought to life and fueled on bimmerpost.

If I'm wrong I will be mildly annoyed for a few minutes and the move on with my life and my 2017 M2 (with a sunroof to make a small dig at you americans... but then apologize.. sorry thats rude)

According to quikM2, the MY2018 will be the last for the regular M2. MY2019 will be M2CSL only. So only about 18 months to go for the regular M2. M2CSL will surely be quite a bit more money than the base obviously.

[quikM2]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Appreciate the info, but it's just a very small data point carrying little weight when considering the historical accuracy of dealer related info, including model changes.

Completely agree with you and fair enough. Honestly I was more than anything trying to inject some humour and 'lightness' in to the atmosphere which was getting a little heavy. From now on I'll stay out of it as I have shared all I know.

As to Nine Lives comment above - I think idrive 5.0 was always coming to all BMW cars and not split by geographic region. its just software. It was just a matter of when it was released to each location and I think we got it on build July or August 2016 onward.

And yes to Hegge above - thats one thing I forgot to mention. he did say the CSL was going to carry a pretty good premium and in his estimation and experience would be around $6-8k increase but than qualified that statement by saying he has no idea for sure as none of those details were shared other than it would cost more. But with it being CSL I think everyone is aware thats an obvious automatic.

(Sorry again as I haven't figured out how to do multiple quotes in one post.)

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by Hegge

According to quikM2, the MY2018 will be the last for the regular M2. MY2019 will be M2CSL only. So only about 18 months to go for the regular M2. M2CSL will surely be quite a bit more money than the base obviously.

This would be very good for MY2016/17/18 holding their value... not as rare as the 1M, but only a 2.5 year run means some rarity at that price point (the CSL will be a significant bump higher).

All highly speculative of course... but just waiting for the solid, proven facts to come out is REALLY boring! Those putting thumbs down to the speculation should just skip this thread and let the rest of us have our fun.

~1 week to go until my MY2017 is in my eager hands!!!

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by quikM2

As to Nine Lives comment above - I think idrive 5.0 was always coming to all BMW cars and not split by geographic region. its just software.

The RUEKO units introduced in July production have slightly different internals. Not sure why you think otherwise.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by quikM2

I want to post the same thing I posted a few pages ago just so I can refer back to it when I get to say the "I told you so" everyone wants to say... the GM of my dealership just returned from headquarters and executive meetings. He being no nonsense and doesn't make things up or speculate related exactly what he learned at HQ with no less and no more. The MY18 M2 will not be affected by the coming 2 series LCI but will receive very minor cosmetic changes. The example he used was LED tails. the MY19 M2 will no longer offer an M2 and will only offer an M2CSL. No other information was provided by HQ as of last week to them. I'm certain this is the unfortunate non exciting truth and all the speculation of S55 and new B58 are nothing more than fantasy rumors brought to life and fueled on bimmerpost.

If I'm wrong I will be mildly annoyed for a few minutes and the move on with my life and my 2017 M2 (with a sunroof to make a small dig at you americans... but then apologize.. sorry thats rude)

You are obviously worried about it or you wouldn't be posting the information again,in the same thread where you already posted it.

There is much more evidence of a new engine for the MY18 M2 that has been posted on the M2 Forum,than some info you are believing from the GM at your dealership.

[quikM2]

Originally Posted by Nantucket

You are obviously worried about it or you wouldn't be posting the information again,in the same thread where you already posted it.

There is much more evidence of a new engine for the MY18 M2 that has been posted on the M2 Forum,than some info you are believing from the GM at your dealership.

Ok easy bud. It sounds like you are taking this quite seriously. No need to try and imply and tell me how I'm feeling by what you are reading into my post so lets keep the word 'obvious' out of the equation. Just keep pushing the 'new engine' speculation based on 'evidence' and let's keep this thread going for another ten pages until someone actually comes out with something besides myself included 'my gm said this, this other forum said that, my buddy in germany who knows a guy in R & D said this'..

[JustChris]

B58 water injection M2.1 CSL

Fact!

6MT only to separate from M4GTS