[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Last year's job promotion means I drive far less than I used to. This has me considering a slightly more hardcore and track friendly vehicle than my F30 (335i).

The obvious choice is an F80. My M3 build is about $77k.

Then there is this new F87 (M2)...My basic build is only $56.4k, but I’d add to the order M Performance coilovers, and black side, and front grills. So for discussion, lets call my M2 $60k. Sounds attractive.

If I assume MSRP w/ the M2; and a discounted M3… The my M3 is still a solid $13k more. More power, more room, carbon roof, HUD, etc., I guess it’s appropriate. The black wheels on the M2 are not my taste, and the increased slant towards boy racer aesthetic isn’t where I’m at either. Maybe I just have to see one in person and see if I fall in love.

Side note:
I'd like a Cayman GTS, but I don't think I can fit a golf bag in the thing. I'd even (gasp!) consider downgrading to a carry bag if that worked, but I don't believe it will. Another significant issue is price. My GTS build is at least $85k, and $89k with PDK. Considering I always sprinkle mods over ownership; this pushes my comfort level. If I wait long enough maybe the 2017 Cayman 718 will enter the equation.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by BruceM

I am not short and money is not an issue for me and I still want an M2 over an M4. Or at least I think I do, based on my M4 test drive and what I believe the M2 will drive like. We'll see.

Money for an M4 and want an M2? Lol wow. No thanks.


Everyone's clearly different. I wouldn't even have given this thing a look if I could get an F80. But that's just me.

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by Verbiage

Money for an M4 and want an M2? Lol wow. No thanks.


Everyone's clearly different. I wouldn't even have given this thing a look if I could get an F80. But that's just me.

I've got two cars with substantially more power than the M4, both of which cost more. One of them is my dedicated (mostly) track car, and the other one has all the luxury stuff. I want a tight, small, fling-able car that I can DD and track, with decent power. I will undoubtedly up that power anyway over time, because I have never been able to resist doing that. But this purchase for me isn't primarily about massive power or extras or systems or space. It will be ok for those things--it will even fit the wife and kids if need be for short hauls--but it's mostly for something more elemental than any of that.

Maybe I'm not the prototypical M2 customer, but I am pretty sure I'm not alone.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by BruceM

I've got two cars with substantially more power than the M4, both of which cost more. One of them is my dedicated (mostly) track car, and the other one has all the luxury stuff. I want a tight, small, fling-able car that I can DD and track, with decent power. I will undoubtedly up that power anyway over time, because I have never been able to resist doing that. But this purchase for me isn't primarily about massive power or extras or systems or space. It will be ok for those things--it will even fit the wife and kids if need be for short hauls--but it's mostly for something more elemental than any of that.

Maybe I'm not the prototypical M2 customer, but I am pretty sure I'm not alone.

I like that term, fling-able. Reminds me of my women.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by BruceM

I've got two cars with substantially more power than the M4, both of which cost more. One of them is my dedicated (mostly) track car, and the other one has all the luxury stuff. I want a tight, small, fling-able car that I can DD and track, with decent power. I will undoubtedly up that power anyway over time, because I have never been able to resist doing that. But this purchase for me isn't primarily about massive power or extras or systems or space. It will be ok for those things--it will even fit the wife and kids if need be for short hauls--but it's mostly for something more elemental than any of that.

Maybe I'm not the prototypical M2 customer, but I am pretty sure I'm not alone.

You're not alone here with that thought.

I, for one, would have a hard time deciding between the F80 and 87. M3's tad too big, but it's just stupid sexy and it can haz red leather, which I absolutely love.

Don't have money for either of them, though.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Verbiage

Money for an M4 and want an M2? Lol wow. No thanks.


Everyone's clearly different. I wouldn't even have given this thing a look if I could get an F80. But that's just me.

Size matters !

[-JLT-]

Originally Posted by Verbiage

Money for an M4 and want an M2? Lol wow. No thanks.

Everyone's clearly different. I wouldn't even have given this thing a look if I could get an F80. But that's just me.

that's what i'm doing. it's not always about the more "expensive" car.

Originally Posted by BruceM

I've got two cars with substantially more power than the M4, both of which cost more. One of them is my dedicated (mostly) track car, and the other one has all the luxury stuff. I want a tight, small, fling-able car that I can DD and track, with decent power. I will undoubtedly up that power anyway over time, because I have never been able to resist doing that. But this purchase for me isn't primarily about massive power or extras or systems or space. It will be ok for those things--it will even fit the wife and kids if need be for short hauls--but it's mostly for something more elemental than any of that.

Maybe I'm not the prototypical M2 customer, but I am pretty sure I'm not alone.

ur not alone

[dammitcubs]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Last year's job promotion means I drive far less than I used to. This has me considering a slightly more hardcore and track friendly vehicle than my F30 (335i).

The obvious choice is an F80. My M3 build is about $77k.

Then there is this new F87 (M2)...My basic build is only $56.4k, but I’d add to the order M Performance coilovers, and black side, and front grills. So for discussion, lets call my M2 $60k. Sounds attractive.

If I assume MSRP w/ the M2; and a discounted M3… The my M3 is still a solid $13k more. More power, more room, carbon roof, HUD, etc., I guess it’s appropriate. The black wheels on the M2 are not my taste, and the increased slant towards boy racer aesthetic isn’t where I’m at either. Maybe I just have to see one in person and see if I fall in love.

Side note:
I'd like a Cayman GTS, but I don't think I can fit a golf bag in the thing. I'd even (gasp!) consider downgrading to a carry bag if that worked, but I don't believe it will. Another significant issue is price. My GTS build is at least $85k, and $89k with PDK. Considering I always sprinkle mods over ownership; this pushes my comfort level. If I wait long enough maybe the 2017 Cayman 718 will enter the equation.

I would honestly get a used Cayman - possibly CPO. You are better off because the first depreciation drop off is just INSANE! I can't believe it. I found at one point a GTS for 67K. And the stock basically has everything you will ever need. It sucks they sell so bad.

I think that after a couple of years, if I still want a Porshe, I'm going to make the bite. Else, I'm stuck using TURO and renting the car two times a year for a weekend fun.

[pikkagtr]

Wait for the new 718 Cayman of you can . the turbo 4 in the Cayman S should be around 370ish in a car under 3000lbs

[W///]

I think if more people drove the M3/4 back to back to an M235i, all these comparisons might come to an end. They are very different cars and it completely depends what you want (and your budget I guess).

This is just my opinion, and you guys don't have to agree and show me the specs, but to me, the 2er feels more like an E46 V2.0, whereas the F80 that I'm interested is a lighter, a tad smaller and more nimble version of the E39 M5.

While the M3/4 is nimble for what it is, no one is going to say that the M3/4 is a compact car. I don't care what the numbers show, the 2er platform does to me.

Either way, I can't wait till you guys get your hands on one. It's been a long wait. Someone did this photoshop for me. I gotta complete the M3 collection (I'm 2 for 3)

[PrematureApex]

Swapping from the M2 to the M3 and M4, it was clear that the bigger brothers had sharper steering, felt more poised and planted, more dynamically responsive and felt much more "race car". The contrast was stark, but this does not mean the M2 is lacking. The M2 has beautiful poise and balance. The M3/4 feel comparatively raw and less forgiving.

From the latest review posted recently. Disappointing if true.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

From the latest review posted recently. Disappointing if true.

Personally - I need to read more reviews before I make up my mind.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

From the latest review posted recently. Disappointing if true.

I agree, but I also have learned not to trust reviews from people that don't qualify their experience level with performance driving. I have heard so many friends give their opinion of a car's "performance limits" and feel but then see them driving aggressively with the seat "lean back" style with one hand at 12 o clock on the wheel and the other hanging out the window.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

From the latest review posted recently. Disappointing if true.

I am just waiting for the official press reviews,instead of relying on a review from an M235i owner.I am especially looking forward to the review by Chris Harris.

[Verbiage]

Car reviews are subjective at best. Please use your own discretion when coming to conclusions. This should be common sense by now, at least. Come on now.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Not even referring to those overgrown beasts.

Look up the same figures for the E30 M3 , E24 M6

Come on it's 2016, why would you compare to cars from the freaking late 80's. That drove like tin cans that were going to fall apart with zero safety or luxury features. You know better than that!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Come on it's 2016, why would you compare to cars from the freaking late 80's. That drove like tin cans that were going to fall apart with zero safety or luxury features. You know better than that!

" zero safety and luxury features "

:

I haven't met a BMW that " drives like a tin can " including the e21 ... and my E30 M3 was equipped with a driver's side airbag and weighed 28xx lbs.


Guess what - the BMW E24 M6 weight was 1510 KG (3330 lb) And the E28 M5 had a curb weight of 1550Kg (3417 lb)

What does your M3 sedan weigh? Never mind..


E30 M3 length - 171 in
BMW 1M length - 172.4 in

E36 M3 length - 174.5 in
F87 M2 length - 176 in
E46 M3 length - 176.8 in

E90 M3 length - 181- 182 in
E28 M5 length - 182 in
F80 M4 length - 184 in

E24 M6 length - 187 in


As you can see by the measurements above.
I've never wanted a GT car like the E24 m6 and that is what the m4 is today both in length and it's not even close in weight.



The F80 M3/M4 are a FOOT longer than the 1M

That just might matter on an autocross course !

[BruceM]

[QUOTE=M3 Adjuster;19396314]" zero safety and luxury features "



f87 M2 length - ?

176.2 inches

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

" zero safety and luxury features "

:

I haven't met a BMW that " drives like a tin can " including the e21 ... and my E30 M3 was equipped with a driver's side airbag and weighed 28xx lbs.


Guess what - the BMW E24 M6 weight was 1510 KG (3330 lb) And the E28 M5 had a curb weight of 1550Kg (3417 lb)

What does your M3 sedan weigh? Never mind..


E30 M3 length - 171 in
BMW 1M length - 172.4 in

E36 M3 length - 174.5 in
F87 M2 length - 176 in
E46 M3 length - 176.8 in

E90 M3 length - 181- 182 in
E28 M5 length - 182 in
F80 M4 length - 184 in

E24 M6 length - 187 in


As you can see by the measurements above.
I've never wanted a GT car like the E24 m6 and that is what the m4 is today both in length and it's not even close in weight.



The F80 M3/M4 are a FOOT longer than the 1M

That just might matter on an autocross course !

I don't know, it seems Ken O is doing just fine in his bone stock heavy xtra long daily driver E92 M3 taking just about all the FTD's at the local BMWCCA events.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

" zero safety and luxury features "

:

I haven't met a BMW that " drives like a tin can " including the e21 ... and my E30 M3 was equipped with a driver's side airbag and weighed 28xx lbs.


Guess what - the BMW E24 M6 weight was 1510 KG (3330 lb) And the E28 M5 had a curb weight of 1550Kg (3417 lb)

What does your M3 sedan weigh? Never mind..


E30 M3 length - 171 in
BMW 1M length - 172.4 in

E36 M3 length - 174.5 in
F87 M2 length - 176 in
E46 M3 length - 176.8 in

E90 M3 length - 181- 182 in
E28 M5 length - 182 in
F80 M4 length - 184 in

E24 M6 length - 187 in


As you can see by the measurements above.
I've never wanted a GT car like the E24 m6 and that is what the m4 is today both in length and it's not even close in weight.



The F80 M3/M4 are a FOOT longer than the 1M

That just might matter on an autocross course !

A driver side airbag is not exactly state of the art. Today we have 8+ airbags, auto braking intervention, lane departure warning, back up cameras with warnings, radar cruise control, pedestrian friendly bumpers, antilock brakes. Late 80's BMW's have less safety and luxury features than the cheapest worst Hyundai they sell new today.

I hate extra weight as much as the next guy but times change, you can't expect modern cars to stay at sub 3,000 pounds and have all the features, comfort and refinement that they do. All this talk about extra weight, 'nimbleness', rotation won't be experienced on a day to day basis on the street which is the majority of seat time in a street car but the refinement, comfort and convenience features will.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

A driver side airbag is not exactly state of the art. Today we have 8+ airbags, auto braking intervention, lane departure warning, back up cameras with warnings, radar cruise control, pedestrian friendly bumpers, antilock brakes. Late 80's BMW's have less safety and luxury features than the cheapest worst Hyundai they sell new today.

I hate extra weight than the next guy but times change, you can't expect modern cars to stay at sub 3,000 pounds and have all the features, comfort, refinement that they do.

Tell that to Mazda?

Go look at their vehicles and you'll see that's not correct.

The BMW 3 series didn't add weight because of most of what you mentioned.

Did you also forget about advances in plastics, cfrp, reductions in alloy wheel weight, aluminum suspension components, subframes, driveshafts, lighter headlamp assemblies and thinner, lighter sheet metal that now enable cars to be made lighter than in the past ?

The 3 series got bigger and heavier and fatter because BMW has grown it larger to move it into a different market space. The same has occurs with another vehicle icon- the Honda Accord.

Honda has brought the civic *and * the fit to market to replace the Honda Accord as it moved up market in size.

BMW has brought out a 2 series , in two door guise only, an ABSOLUTE fail considering the success of the E30, E36 and E46 sedans, and added so much size and weight to the 2 series that its nearly an F80.

We need a BMW FIT.. Or.. A Fit BMW :

[swagon]

Originally Posted by W///

I think if more people drove the M3/4 back to back to an M235i, all these comparisons might come to an end. They are very different cars and it completely depends what you want (and your budget I guess).

This is just my opinion, and you guys don't have to agree and show me the specs, but to me, the 2er feels more like an E46 V2.0, whereas the F80 that I'm interested is a lighter, a tad smaller and more nimble version of the E39 M5.

While the M3/4 is nimble for what it is, no one is going to say that the M3/4 is a compact car. I don't care what the numbers show, the 2er platform does to me.

Either way, I can't wait till you guys get your hands on one. It's been a long wait. Someone did this photoshop for me. I gotta complete the M3 collection (I'm 2 for 3)

So when are you buying that plane?