[M2-007]

I never had the proper training on how to drive a stick shift. I bought my first MT car 5 years ago and drove it home after a 10 minutes lesson from the salesman. I remembered stalling the car every few blocks trying to get home, and had to put on the emergency light to stop people from honking me. After the car lease ended I haven't driven a manual since.

Fast forward to today, I will be getting the M2 in 6sp MT. I started watching Youtube on how to drive a stick shift and learned that I shouldn't hold the clutch and put the car in 1st gear while waiting at the traffic light, as this would wear out something in the transmission. Another thing they mentioned is not to skip gear (down shifting). But I used to skip gears all the time. For example, while running in 5th gear on the highway and traffic is slowing down, I would shift to neutral and let the car slow down while in neutral, with some braking as needed. If the traffic starts moving again and the car speed is around 20mph, I just shift into 2nd gear and continue on. Is this harmful to the transmission because I skipped 3rd and 4th gears? Or is it necessary for me to down shift from 5th to 4th, to 3rd, then to 2nd?

[Perp]

Skipping gears is fine if you rev match. M2 should do that for you. I like downshifting each gear, just to hear the engine /exhaust and I haven't taken delivery of my m2 yet lol

[emargul]

It is totally fine to skip gears in the example you stated and it is also fine to put it into neutral to brake. That's not how I drive, but definitely nothing wrong with it.

In your example, I would brake in the gear I am in without engaging the clutch and if the speed drops below the rpms for that gear, I'll just engage the clutch then and keep braking. Once I am ready to accelerate again, I'll shift to the proper gear based on the current speed of the car. Definitely not saying this is the right way, but just the way I drive.

Also, you shouldn't keep the clutch engaged while sitting at a light because it wears the clutch.

[M2-007]

Originally Posted by emargul

It is totally fine to skip gears in the example you stated and it is also fine to put it into neutral to brake. That's not how I drive, but definitely nothing wrong with it.

In your example, I would brake in the gear I am in without engaging the clutch and if the speed drops below the rpms for that gear, I'll just engage the clutch then and keep braking. Once I am ready to accelerate again, I'll shift to the proper gear based on the current speed of the car. Definitely not saying this is the right way, but just the way I drive.
.

Come to think of it, your way is more efficient as keeping it in gear helps slowing down the car with less braking involved. So less wear on the brake pad.

[Airic72]

Couple good perks to the M2 manual.
-It rev matches for you when you downshift for smooth sift transitions.
-It also has a creep function when in 1st or R. You don't even need to apply any gas. Let off the clutch slowly and the car will automatically rev an additional 200 to 300 rpm to allow you to creep forward or backward without you having to touch the gas peddle.
-Lastly, it has auto brake function. If on a hill the car will hold the brake until you add acceleration and let off the clutch.

All great perks to have with a manual

At stop lights I typical do put it in neutral. Not for any potential wear issues, more for driver comfort.

One recommendation, look up the Clutch Stop in this forum. A must have. It will shorten the throw on you clutch peddle and makes it feel more aligned with the gas and brake. Best $10 I spent.

[mojosodope]

I wouldn't call myself a guru, but I will give some advice.

Youtube - Engineering explained manual transmission

There are a number of short videos all of which address many of the questions you have asked here.

It is perfectly fine to hold the clutch in at a stop while in first - provided you are holding the clutch all the way down. There is no undue wear because of this because the clutch should not be engaged if it is pressed all the way to the floor (or clutch stop if you decide to get one).

Some people will actually say this is the proper way to hold your car because it provides extra safety in case you get rear ended by someone. You let the clutch out and be in gear, giving you extra resistance to being pushed. The choice is kind of up to you - is there already someone behind you? How long do you have to wait at the light?

I wouldn't really call neutral a gear, but disengaging into neutral is fine, however there are some reason you might not want to do this. You will burn through brake pads quicker only using your brake pads and no engine braking. Another concern is safety; the m2 will rev match to whatever gear you want, but if you for some reason need power your car is not engaged. I have "heard" it is also better for the engine to spool down in gear. However if I am under 10 mph and approaching a stop, I usually do not downshift into first and just coast up. I have heard in UK drivers tests, you can actually fail because you don't come to a stop while in gear. Basically you want to be in gear until your car is about to stall, then push the clutch in.

Skipping gears is fine and one of the main reason to have a manual transmission car in my opinion. The m2 will rev match for you, so no need to learn those intricacies. In other manual transmission cars be aware that you will need to rev match yourself if skipping gears.

Other things to consider - don't leave your hand on the shift knob unless you are actually shifting the car, this will cause undue wear. When you are on a hill, do not try to balance your car with the clutch! I had a lady at work tell me her dad taught her that was the proper way to hold the car in place on a hill. Hold your car with the brake only on a hill. I believe the m2 has hill hold assist, so you shouldn't glide back when you let off the brake.

Please correct any of the statements I have made if incorrect - like I said I am not guru, but marginally understand how manual transmissions work. Feel free to ask more questions, too. We are here to help!

Congrats on your m2! I am sure you will have lots of fun. I have been waiting 8.5 months and have yet to get an allocation.

[MrKepan]

apparently, different people have different preference and the car is designed to cope with all kinds of driving, way more tolerable than you would think.

That said, I like my car always in gear when moving. Was told by someone and developed the habit. Don't know the reason, though.

And I upshift around 3k when driving normal. But one day I was in another persons car and he shifts around 1.5k. Made me cringe. Of course, I kept my mouth shut. I learned long time ago, never critique other's driving, ever.

[Tralfaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cbZlhduYJY

I've been driving mostly manuals for 25 years, but still found this video interesting. It confirmed the things I knew were not good things to do, but gave more context to why.

Someone else mentioned someone they knew up shifting around 1500 RPMS. One tip for you on the M2. Do not turn on the setting that displays the suggested gear you should be in. It shows you the most "efficient" gear, but it feels like it has some crazy ideas on that. I think 2500 to 3000 RPM up-shift is fairly standard for non-aggressive acceleration.

[stefan]

I do not think you can learn to drive from youtube. You can definitely learn to refine your technique there, such as minimizing clutch wear and heel toe and all that. But the basics? Buy a beater or a find a friend with one.

To your questions
- coasting will wear out your throwout bearing if you ride the clutch, but less so at lights. I do recommend in general you stay in gear and ready to move at any moment at a light while watching your rear view. The safety benefits outweigh the small amount of wear on the throwout bearing. But otherwise yes just put it in neutral.
- skip gears all you want; just try to match the revs to keep things friendly with your synchro.

[M2Nebula]

Originally Posted by stefan

But the basics? Buy a beater or find a friend with one.

Please.

[Nezil]

As others have said, and I know first hand because I grew up and spent the first 28 years of my life in England, there is a portion of the test which checks that you're not coasting at any point, but you are expected to put the car in neutral after you've stopped, even if you're at a light.

I'm not sure I would do that all of the time, but if I knew the light had just turned red, I might. You won't wear the clutch if you sit there with you foot pushing the clutch in the whole time, but you will wear the release / throwout bearing. Having said that, it's designed to spin, it is a bearing, and I wouldn't call this behaviour 'un-necessary' or 'excessive' wear.

One thing that I've commented on several times, is that in countries, like the UK, where manual gearboxes are the norm, women, young first time drivers and elderly drivers all drive manual and have no significant issues. I read the threads from US readers and sometimes find the comments entertaining. It seems that because only enthusiasts in the US drive manual, the ability to do so has been elevated to an 'enhanced driving skill', which it isn't.

There are ways to drive that will extend the life of your clutch friction lining, release bearing and synchro, but these components were designed to last a long time with 'normal' driving, which does not include rev matching or coasting.

The primary reason to rev-match, is to not upset the balance of the car when you change gear, it's not to protect the gearbox or clutch, though it does have the side benefit of wearing the components slightly less.

The normal way to down-shift, and what is taught in countries where manual is normal, is that you change down, and release the clutch a little slowly to bring the engine up to speed, half a second to a second is all that's needed, and it will still be a smooth down-shift. Admittedly, this is wearing the clutch, but that is how it was designed, and you'll still get many many miles out of it if you drive this way.

The only advise that I would say is a real 'don't do', is hold the car on the clutch on a hill, and try to pull away in a gear other than 1st. (You could try and pull away in second if you really need to because you're on ice or something, but don't make a habit of it).

[bobert]

[M2-007]

Thank you so much for all the advice. One more question about changing gears at higher RPM. So normal driving would means shifting gear at around 3000 RPM. For spirited driving we would rev the engine near red line every time we shift gear. Besides burning more gas does it cause any damages to the engine or transmission? I am buying the M2 to have fun with spirited driving. I hope the M2 is built for spirited driving.

Just to clarify. I don't mean driving the car near red line all the time, but just to rev near red line during acceleration.

[DoggieHowser]

Let the car warm up first.

When the temp gauge says OK then go ahead and redline it.

Not sure what it says for LCI temp gauge.

On the M Performance steering wheel with LED Display - OK on the preLCI corresponds to over 60C on the wheel.

[rouxeny]

Originally Posted by Tralfaz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cbZlhduYJY

I've been driving mostly manuals for 25 years, but still found this video interesting. It confirmed the things I knew were not good things to do, but gave more context to why.

Someone else mentioned someone they knew up shifting around 1500 RPMS. One tip for you on the M2. Do not turn on the setting that displays the suggested gear you should be in. It shows you the most "efficient" gear, but it feels like it has some crazy ideas on that. I think 2500 to 3000 RPM up-shift is fairly standard for non-aggressive acceleration.

Totally agree with the recommended gear display. If I follow it, I often feel the engine is almost bogging down, it doesn't recommend a downshift until you're close to 1000rpm.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by DoggieHowser

Let the car warm up first.

When the temp gauge says OK then go ahead and redline it.

Not sure what it says for LCI temp gauge.

On the M Performance steering wheel with LED Display - OK on the preLCI corresponds to over 60C on the wheel.

I don't think the oil is up to temp at 'OK'.

[blackholescion]

Originally Posted by Nezil

As others have said, and I know first hand because I grew up and spent the first 28 years of my life in England, there is a portion of the test which checks that you're not coasting at any point, but you are expected to put the car in neutral after you've stopped, even if you're at a light.

I'm not sure I would do that all of the time, but if I knew the light had just turned red, I might. You won't wear the clutch if you sit there with you foot pushing the clutch in the whole time, but you will wear the release / throwout bearing. Having said that, it's designed to spin, it is a bearing, and I wouldn't call this behaviour 'un-necessary' or 'excessive' wear.

One thing that I've commented on several times, is that in countries, like the UK, where manual gearboxes are the norm, women, young first time drivers and elderly drivers all drive manual and have no significant issues. I read the threads from US readers and sometimes find the comments entertaining. It seems that because only enthusiasts in the US drive manual, the ability to do so has been elevated to an 'enhanced driving skill', which it isn't.

There are ways to drive that will extend the life of your clutch friction lining, release bearing and synchro, but these components were designed to last a long time with 'normal' driving, which does not include rev matching or coasting.

The primary reason to rev-match, is to not upset the balance of the car when you change gear, it's not to protect the gearbox or clutch, though it does have the side benefit of wearing the components slightly less.

The normal way to down-shift, and what is taught in countries where manual is normal, is that you change down, and release the clutch a little slowly to bring the engine up to speed, half a second to a second is all that's needed, and it will still be a smooth down-shift. Admittedly, this is wearing the clutch, but that is how it was designed, and you'll still get many many miles out of it if you drive this way.

The only advise that I would say is a real 'don't do', is hold the car on the clutch on a hill, and try to pull away in a gear other than 1st. (You could try and pull away in second if you really need to because you're on ice or something, but don't make a habit of it).

Listen to this guy. And always downshift when slowing down and don't coast in neutral. Not just because the UK does it.

If you need to make a movement for any reason, it's better that your car is in gear so you can make that movement much faster (Accelerate around something for example). If it's in neutral you can only steer and you'll probably try fumbling around with putting the car in gear while you're doing this and then splat. Let your attention be where it needs to be, avoiding the situation. The best way to do that is to keep the car in gear at all times.

Think of it like this. Automatic transmissions and DCTs don't go into neutral when you're braking on the freeway (or anywhere else) until you've come to a stop. Why would you do anything different in a manual?

Originally Posted by DoggieHowser

Let the car warm up first.

When the temp gauge says OK then go ahead and redline it.

Not sure what it says for LCI temp gauge.

On the M Performance steering wheel with LED Display - OK on the preLCI corresponds to over 60C on the wheel.

Wait until the temp gauge is in the middle. Only then is the oil up to temperature.

[MrKepan]

Originally Posted by M2-007

Thank you so much for all the advice. One more question about changing gears at higher RPM. So normal driving would means shifting gear at around 3000 RPM. For spirited driving we would rev the engine near red line every time we shift gear. Besides burning more gas does it cause any damages to the engine or transmission? I am buying the M2 to have fun with spirited driving. I hope the M2 is built for spirited driving.

Just to clarify. I don't mean driving the car near red line all the time, but just to rev near red line during acceleration.

Originally Posted by M2-007

Thank you so much for all the advice. One more question about changing gears at higher RPM. So normal driving would means shifting gear at around 3000 RPM. For spirited driving we would rev the engine near red line every time we shift gear. Besides burning more gas does it cause any damages to the engine or transmission? I am buying the M2 to have fun with spirited driving. I hope the M2 is built for spirited driving.

Just to clarify. I don't mean driving the car near red line all the time, but just to rev near red line during acceleration.

To be honest, I almost never red lined on the street in my old car. Only when someone want to race me at the traffic light.

I would consider 4k5 up shift "spirited" driving around the town. And you can't even do that at higher gears because of speed limit.

[Mavus]

also make sure you apply full pressure on both the clutch AND brake in emergency braking scenarios

[Archie Bunker]

Originally Posted by M2-007

Come to think of it, your way is more efficient as keeping it in gear helps slowing down the car with less braking involved. So less wear on the brake pad.

What is cheaper? A transmission or brake pads?

Edit: Sorry, I was confusing posts above. I don't recommend downshifting every gear to "hear the engine and exhaust." Hence, my rhetorical question. On the street, brake pads are your best bet for slowing down the car next to off-throttle coasting to slow.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by akkando

I don't think the oil is up to temp at 'OK'.

Correct, it's coolant temp that's up when it's ok. I think roughly around 60C or so it gets to OK. The oil temp gauge follows oil temps quite closely, and isn't totally based on coolant.

When it hits the middle mark that's when the oil temps are at operating temps. which is roughly 90C-108C.

Sport/Sport+ and DSC OFF ( sport throttle ) will run the water pump more aggressively and have the MAP controlled oil pump running harder and keeps coolant temps around 80-85C depending on how hard you drive, oil temps drop a few degrees as well.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by Archie Bunker

What is cheaper? A transmission or brake pads?

Edit: Sorry, I was confusing posts above. I don't recommend downshifting every gear to "hear the engine and exhaust." Hence, my rhetorical question. On the street, brake pads are your best bet for slowing down the car next to off-throttle coasting to slow.

The excuse for downshifting just to have engine braking is... moot in this day and age. Many modern cars limit the amount of engine braking a motor has to keep it more civil and actually improve efficiency.

That said I personally still downshift lets say slowing down from 60mph slowly to 0, I will downshift from 6 - 5th - 4th - 3rd - 2nd, and eventually clutch in. This is all done around 2-3K rpm max unless I'm driving aggressively and I NEVER skip gears. unless upshifiting but even then I go through the gates to let the syncros match per gear, or double clutch.