[capt_and]

I recently thought about giving up my allocation for a TT-RS ($75k msrp, full loaded) and was weighing some pros/cons for each car. Here are my thoughts. Please feel free to correct my thinking or add on.

M-2:
1. More cost effective, I can get it decked out with exhaust, coilovers, etc for $65k.
2. RWD is more fun.
3. The BMW I-6 is supposed to be indestructible.
4. Bigger torque range.
5. Slower, much slower, but I think this is a positive. If the car is too fast, I won't have a chance to hear the engine doing its thing without going to prison.
6. I like the wide rear fenders.
7. Has a stick.
8. Large following so better resale value if I should choose to unload at some point.

TT-RS:
1. Better color choices.
2. IMO looks better, sportier, and meaner.
3. The 5 cylinder is supposed to be fantastic, insanely expensive. From my understanding, that build is TT-RS specific so repairs would mean refinancing the house.
4. No manual.
5. Fast, really really fast. Super car speed. But I have a feeling that once I get used to it, the thrill would go away.
6. AWD, way better for all weather driving. Also more confidence to attack public roads without fear of throwing the rear out and looking like every Mustang owner leaving cars and coffee.
7. Way better interior quality.
8. Cool virtual cockpit, but I am not sure if I would like a screen telling me critical information like speed.
9. Not a huge following. As a matter of fact, one of the first ones available in TX is leaving the port en route to the dealership at this point and no one has put down an deposit. Depreciation could be big like any other Audi.

[MR_M2]

This topic was beaten to death here - http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1363012

You missed one really important feature that some prefer over RWD -- the holy grail of automotive engineering -- O.L.E.D tail lights

[auf Deutsch]

The TTRS is built backwards with a wider front track and consequently, wider front tires. Why you ask? Because with exception of the R8, Audi has no clue how to build a fundamentally sporty and fun car.

The RS could have hypercar speed. I'd never consider it.

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by MR_M2

This topic was beaten to death here - http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1363012

You missed one really important feature that some prefer over RWD -- the holy grail of automotive engineering -- O.L.E.D tail lights

Oh wow it sure has. I saw that thread but didn't get past the second page, should've kept going.

Well, to see if anyone can provide another angle at this (and possibly start a flame war), whose engineers better cars? the M or RS team?

I have read and watched interviews with engineers from both sides, the one thing that stood out to me was the exhaust. BMW says that theirs is designed to optimize performance. Audi says they drove down a road with a bunch of trees and picked the exhaust that sounded the best to them. No audio recording or anything, just guys driving down a road with the window down.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by qtong

whose engineers better cars? the M or RS team?

RS with their engines (the same can be said for AMG) , M with everything else

[brava09]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

Because with exception of the R8, Audi has no clue how to build a fundamentally sporty and fun car.

Well, that is enough to prove they can. Moreover, BMW has nothing at the R8 level, although 10 years passed already.

[ZPrime]

The previous version of the 5cyl (CEPB is the code in the US) is like $7-9k and I believe that is just the bare motor without anything on it (if you were to grenade one). That's the iron block version. I have to imagine whatever they are putting in the 8S (3rd gen) TTRS is even more expensive, being 100% aluminum.

Being S-tronic / DSG only in the 8S car is a plus, not a negative, FWIW. Unless they were going to come up with a new gearbox and clutch, you don't want what they put in the old one, it kinda sucks. (It's a diesel AWD Tiguan transmission with different gear ratios.)

[BEM-S4]

One thing to keep in mind is the M2 has a usable back seat, I have had large adults in the back of my 235 coupe. The TTRS is completely useless aside from a very small child or pet, if that's a concern.

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

RS with their engines (the same can be said for AMG) , M with everything else

Better in terms of performance or reliability?

Originally Posted by ZPrime

The previous version of the 5cyl (CEPB is the code in the US) is like $7-9k and I believe that is just the bare motor without anything on it (if you were to grenade one). That's the iron block version. I have to imagine whatever they are putting in the 8S (3rd gen) TTRS is even more expensive, being 100% aluminum.

Being S-tronic / DSG only in the 8S car is a plus, not a negative, FWIW. Unless they were going to come up with a new gearbox and clutch, you don't want what they put in the old one, it kinda sucks. (It's a diesel AWD Tiguan transmission with different gear ratios.)

So well over 10% of the cost of the car is in the block. Any reason they are so expensive relative to just about everything else? I don't think they are bespoke to the TT RS since other models use the same block.

[csbear]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

The TTRS is built backwards with a wider front track and consequently, wider front tires. Why you ask? Because with exception of the R8, Audi has no clue how to build a fundamentally sporty and fun car.

The RS could have hypercar speed. I'd never consider it.

Yeah, that's my problem with Audi. I like their cars to a point, but wouldn't take an RS model over BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, and even Chevy, Ford's sporty offerings IF you are looking for performance as a top priority.

The new RS5, for example, seems like a flop to me. Too far from Audi's racing lineage...
In that price range, I'd rather have the M4, C63S, etc.. The C63S might be heavy, but it has the best engine of the bunch.

That being said, I'm pretty sure the TTRS will be a hoot to drive when it comes to launching. And the interior is great in typical Audi fashion

[stefan]

The motor is superior by a massive margin. Aaaaand that's about it. A non-starter if you drive manual.

[hoyasaxa]

Originally Posted by qtong

5. Fast, really really fast. Super car speed. But I have a feeling that once I get used to it, the thrill would go away.

In a straight line. the M2 (in DCT) is likely quicker on a track.

They were driving the 6MT here, but, of course, the TTRS is DSG/sTronic only.

Also, don't forget how much more expensive the TTRS is--it's M4 money, not M2 money.

[Xtianh]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

In a straight line. the M2 (in DCT) is likely quicker on a track.

They were driving the 6MT here, but, of course, the TTRS is DSG/sTronic only.

Also, don't forget how much more expensive the TTRS is--it's M4 money, not M2 money.

Great post. I was in the same boat of considering the TTRS or the M2, and unlike op, I actually think the M2 looks better. The TT RS is a little boy racer for my taste. In any event, performance is most important to me, and I thought the TT RS would handle the M2 around the track given its straight line numbers. Not true in the least bit. As you pointed out, this test was conducted with an MT M2. The DCT, I'm guessing, would be close to a second faster, probably rivaling the Porsche. That video really opened my eyes to how much an advantage the M2 has in handling over the TT RS. The TT just has so much power it can't use in real racing conditions. So end of the story, for at least $10k less, probably closer to 15-20, you get a faster track car in the M2, and for my money, better looking as well.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

In a straight line. the M2 (in DCT) is likely quicker on a track.

It beat the M2 on all these tracks:

Anglesey International GP          1:40.57 vs 1:40.68
Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours Club 1:22.60 vs 1:23.50
Contidrom (3.63 km)    		   1:36.20 vs 1:38.40
Sachsenring 		           1:37.53 vs 1:37.65

[Spinnetti]

Seems a bit juvenile to buy a street car based on lap times, especially when you will never legitimately race on any of them. Similar performance notwithstanding I don't even see these cars competing for the same customers. I like many things about Audi's better than other brands but never considered the TT. I see the M2 getting cross shopped with the RS3 and more likely the Mustang and Camaro as more applicable competitors. I decided on the M2 but after a year of waiting, got an R8 instead. The R8 is a fantastic, precision instrument but not as raw as I'd like - but I can make it a bit louder

[OSee]

Originally Posted by Spinnetti

Seems a bit juvenile to buy a street car based on lap times, especially when you will never legitimately race on any of them. Similar performance notwithstanding I don't even see these cars competing for the same customers. I like many things about Audi's better than other brands but never considered the TT. I see the M2 getting cross shopped with the RS3 and more likely the Mustang and Camaro as more applicable competitors. I decided on the M2 but after a year of waiting, got an R8 instead. The R8 is a fantastic, precision instrument but not as raw as I'd like - but I can make it a bit louder

You cross shopped an M2 with a R8 and you’re here lecturing people on what the M2 is likely cross shopped with?

[c1pher]

I dunno, I look at it this way. The M2 takes an already excellent platform and tweaks it. The TTRS takes an already numb and isolated car, throws a bigger engine in it, sells it for way more simply because it "competes" in the Cayman S wheelhouse. I have driven the TT once and the TTS 3-4 times. It is fast, it is AWD, it has a wonderfully sumptuous interior. The TTRS, from the photos I've seen, doesn't really change anything. Maybe a slightly different digital display graphic and different (not necessarily better) interior materials.

Don't get me wrong, I love the TT/TTS/TTRS, but I think it's better to get the TTS with the 7 speed when it comes out. If you feel it needs more power, throw a tune on it. Done. And you just saved liked $20k. Ideally, I'd find a lightly used 2016 launch edition TTS for $40-45k, and mod that. For the money, I'd rather have like a Corvette Grand Sport. I might be able to find a Z06 close to that price range with dealer discounts. TTRS will not be discounted, at least at the onset.

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by Spinnetti

Seems a bit juvenile to buy a street car based on lap times, especially when you will never legitimately race on any of them. Similar performance notwithstanding I don't even see these cars competing for the same customers. I like many things about Audi's better than other brands but never considered the TT. I see the M2 getting cross shopped with the RS3 and more likely the Mustang and Camaro as more applicable competitors. I decided on the M2 but after a year of waiting, got an R8 instead. The R8 is a fantastic, precision instrument but not as raw as I'd like - but I can make it a bit louder

I cross shopped because they are both smaller 2 door coupes with silly back rows that is fun. Just like you, who wound up with an R8, if two cars have the same characteristic and I can afford it, then it can be cross shopped. The RS3 is a 4 door sedan, I don't think it is as comparable as the TT-RS. I am not a lap time enthusiast either, but some people are because they do track the cars. My priorities are in the following order: (1) do I like looking at it, shallow, I know. (2) is it fast enough to give me a rush. (3) does it handle well. (4) does it sound nice. (5) will my wife leave me if I buy it.

Originally Posted by MGM135is

I dunno, I look at it this way. The M2 takes an already excellent platform and tweaks it. The TTRS takes an already numb and isolated car, throws a bigger engine in it, sells it for way more simply because it "competes" in the Cayman S wheelhouse. I have driven the TT once and the TTS 3-4 times. It is fast, it is AWD, it has a wonderfully sumptuous interior. The TTRS, from the photos I've seen, doesn't really change anything. Maybe a slightly different digital display graphic and different (not necessarily better) interior materials.

Don't get me wrong, I love the TT/TTS/TTRS, but I think it's better to get the TTS with the 7 speed when it comes out. If you feel it needs more power, throw a tune on it. Done. And you just saved liked $20k. Ideally, I'd find a lightly used 2016 launch edition TTS for $40-45k, and mod that. For the money, I'd rather have like a Corvette Grand Sport. I might be able to find a Z06 close to that price range with dealer discounts. TTRS will not be discounted, at least at the onset.

My personal preference is to buy cars that are exactly, or very close, to how I want it from the factory. Why? When I go to sell it, which I inevitably will, I will be lucky to get any of that money back. I was looking to get an S2000 to DD while waiting for the M2. The highly modified offerings were selling for less than stock.

This is the exact dilemma I have with the M2, I have about a running total of $7,000 worth of mods I want to do including coilovers, exhaust, and cosmetic mods. I am going to go with m perf parts for most of it but I don't like the m perf exhaust. If I go after market, am I going to have a harder time selling it down the line? Will the m perf parts hold their value as well as the stock car? I am not buying the car for the next owner but in a way, I sort of am if I plan on selling it at any point.

[c1pher]

Well, that was in the back of my mind with simply going with a tune. It’s fairly trivial to return to stock when you sell it. There will always be someone who will want the car with mods already done, but you are reducing the number of potential buyers. But so what, you bought the car for you, not the next person.

[Bluenose-2er]

The OP lost me at the TTRS "looks better sportier and meaner". I just do not see that at all... but it is very subjective. Also, not THAT much faster than a M2 on the track... especially considering the HP advantage. Though if you are into stoplight racing, likely will shine there.

I do like the 5-pot sound of the RS, but my M2 sounds plenty sweet to me.

Either is a great car, but they are different enough that once you sort out your priorities the answer should be very clear. I know what my answer was... but the other answer could easily be just as right for a different person.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Spinnetti

Seems a bit juvenile to buy a street car based on lap times, especially when you will never legitimately race on any of them.

lol too funny! Lap times are simply the best indicator of the performance value you are getting when you pay the premium for a performance model vehicle over another vehicle.
In other words, performance cars cost more due to the bits which make them faster on a track. Do you get it? Unbelievable.

[Rapture1]

I like them both, but for me I think the Audi is a better fit. I loved the interior and like the uniqueness of that motor and really enjoy the sound of a car. I'm also a fan of AWD cars. I'm currently waiting for an allocation to be filled. I have no interest in the RS3 though, don't need or want the two extra doors. I didn't consider cross shopping the RS3 but could see how some people may.