[Ex-MINI]

Originally Posted by Corinne

Well I had mixed results from my meeting with the dealer ! I tried to persuade him to remove the april price increase since my car wasn't due to be delivered until june but he wouldn't have any of that. So bang went € 2200 in price increase. He gave me 10% off the M-Performance stuff I ordered. He made a point of phoning a colleague in the after sales service and asked what the profit margin was on M-Performance items. The colleague told him 10 %. I laughed and replied that I was sure it was way, way higher but he swore it was 10% ! So my car is going to cost a total of € 82,791 which is $ 98,827 !!! € 10,000 of that is pollution tax and € 11,224 is VAT. Delivery is 3 october.

I would agree with you that the margin on M Performance parts are much higher than 10%.

The discount that my local BMW car club gets on those parts with our dealership is typically 20%, sometimes slightly more. There is no way the dealer is losing money...

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Originally Posted by bobert

Are they actually getting it, or just asking for it...? No one should be paying over MSRP at this point, not even in Cali...

But as we all know...if someone wants it bad enough

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by Corinne

No doubt I will..... once I've saved up enough to fill the tank

On the plus side, it is a tiny tank... so easier to save for a fill

Not surprised they wanted to give you the full increases... you were in a really weak negotiating position (as most who want an M2 are). I was pushed from MY2016 to MY2017 through no fault of my own and had no luck getting the former price - had to pay the increased MSRP. I think you need to be a regular buyer at the dealership to get that treatment. Just shake it off and enjoy the car!

Your taxes sound terrible! ... and here I was whining about my 15% sales tax here in eastern Canada.

Fun driving days ahead!

[akkando]

Originally Posted by ehagerty

But as we all know...if someone wants it bad enough

Msrp can be had, if you don't mind waiting. If you want the car immediately in California probably difficult to find it for msrp. I know people have but their story is usually they went to the dealer randomly and they were convinced to buy an ordered car on the lot the original person backed out on. If you show up you with specific interest in the car they don't want to let it go at msrp.

How much is it worth to someone to get the car now instead of months from now? More than zero dollars.

[Spa2k]

There's a lot of markup in parts; some dealers would rather make a little on big volume, instead of getting no orders at full price.

Last week, I placed a $1,400 order for OEM parts and accessories and saved more than $400 (including shipping!) at one of the dealers recommended to me in this thread: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1417802.

[flyaway]

Originally Posted by Corinne

Well I had mixed results from my meeting with the dealer ! I tried to persuade him to remove the april price increase since my car wasn't due to be delivered until june but he wouldn't have any of that. So bang went € 2200 in price increase. He gave me 10% off the M-Performance stuff I ordered. He made a point of phoning a colleague in the after sales service and asked what the profit margin was on M-Performance items. The colleague told him 10 %. I laughed and replied that I was sure it was way, way higher but he swore it was 10% ! So my car is going to cost a total of € 82,791 which is $ 98,827 !!! € 10,000 of that is pollution tax and € 11,224 is VAT. Delivery is 3 october.

A decent discount from a respectful and ''friendly'' dealer , in this part of the world, would be minimum 10% for a M car (definitely more for the normal line up) , especially for a car ordered more than a year in advance.

When you ordered the car 18 months ago, the price was stipulated in a contract, a price increase should definitely not be of your concern, even if you delayed delivery (if only not stipulated on an additional act, but even this should have been negotiated).

You are being lied and scammed by a factious phone call “to a colleague” with false statements (at least he could have sad it was confidential… )

You are finally paying 73000 euros for a car that without any discounts costs 63000 euros in France, 61000 euros in Belgium and 59000 euros in Germany? No offence, but you seem a very "precious" customer for your dealer, maybe you should try others too...

[bim2er]

In the US, there are many sources for discounted genuine BMW parts and M Performance parts that can be found on the Internet. Some of them are sponsors on this site. Many of them are BMW centers that have a side Internet business. If you are willing to deal with getting the parts installed, you might want to try to find some of those in France.

As an example, the M Performance Exhaust System (without tips) lists for $1,994.12 USD. Prices online from three sources, one of which is a Bimmerpost sponsor are $1,715, $1,784.59 and $1,850. If you find one in France or elsewhere in the EU, just make sure you will have a valid warranty for the parts. They may need to be installed by a dealer.

Another suggestion would be to just find pricing in France and take it to your Client Advisor as his statement of 10% margin is just ridiculous. I believe there are many members here that work for BMW centers and know what the margin is. Maybe one of them will PM you.

Great to hear your delivery is only a few weeks away!

[Spa2k]

Originally Posted by flyaway

When you ordered the car 18 months ago, the price was stipulated in a contract, a price increase should definitely not be of your concern, even if you delayed delivery (if only not stipulated on an additional act, but even this should have been negotiated).

Taking a view from the good old USA - and because I did essentially the same thing by opting for an LCI instead of a '17, I'd say you gave up any deal you negotiated or could negotiate on a '17 by saying you don't want it and by ordering an '18, which is a different vehicle. I can't think of any dealer I know that would let you jump model years and hold to the previous year's pricing - unless you were one of the handful of people whose '17 orders were canceled and switched to LCIs, because BMW for whatever reason beyond the buyers' control moved up the production schedule for the '18s. Then you'd have a case. Otherwise, the LCI costs the dealer more than the '17, which means the price is higher to you; you made the decision to change the deal - the dealer didn't.

[Corinne]

All this is true but I DID say that I didn't mind being charged the LCI price increase of july... just that I was trying to avoid the april price increase since my delivery was for june. But sure, my negociating position was pretty weak so I guess it's just tough. If anyone can tell me the real margin I'd be grateful as I really don't like being treated as an idiot by my dealer. I'm not going to get a better price now but I want him to know.

Flyaway, € 10,000 of the € 73,000 is pollution tax by the way. The basic car is € 63,000, plus the pollution tax, and I've added quite a lot of extras. Final price € 78,500.

[No one]

Originally Posted by Corinne

If anyone can tell me the real margin I'd be grateful as I really don't like being treated as an idiot by my dealer. I'm not going to get a better price now but I want him to know.

Another dealer's margin can be different. Even in the same country BMW dealers are reported to compete for advantages... It does not look a constructive approach to discuss the dealer's business. A customer's business is not to feed the dealer or establish a relationship but to get what's desired, isn't it?

So a customer's guidelines should look something like:

1. if you don't want it at their price don't buy;
2. if you feel offended and wish to punish them just go elsewhere no matter what;
3. if you have a better deal available, give them a chance to surpass and enjoy the best offer;
etc.

If you don't like a dealer's employee's treatment report it to the superiors if appropriate. When I bought my car both the dealer and the local BMW representative called me to wonder my impressions/comments.

[ryzer30]

Am collecting my M2 BSM on Wed 20th Sept, ordered on 14th Aug 2017 (am in the UK) 4 weeks lead time for the car is incredible and typically unheard of. Mine is the new LCI model, the UK version comes fully equipped except for the following which can add for an addtional cost:

Sunguard
Sunroof
Harmon speakers
Enhanced Bluetooth and wireless charging phone capability
DCT gear box
Apple car play - totally pointless and terrible
Adaptive lighting
Comfort access
Anti daze
Smokers pack
Heated seats and wheel
Lumbar support
Speed limit
Reversing cam (sensors already in the car)

Everything else is standard on the LCI Uk model - the above add on are like £300-£400 avg... I opted for Enhanced bluetooth wireless, harmon speakers, DCT and sunguard...

Not sure how that compares with other countrys in the spec department with what isnt as standard.

EDIT - price was just over £50k sterling

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Corinne

Well I had mixed results from my meeting with the dealer ! I tried to persuade him to remove the april price increase since my car wasn't due to be delivered until june but he wouldn't have any of that. So bang went € 2200 in price increase. He gave me 10% off the M-Performance stuff I ordered. He made a point of phoning a colleague in the after sales service and asked what the profit margin was on M-Performance items. The colleague told him 10 %. I laughed and replied that I was sure it was way, way higher but he swore it was 10% ! So my car is going to cost a total of € 82,791 which is $ 98,827 !!! € 10,000 of that is pollution tax and € 11,224 is VAT. Delivery is 3 october.

In the uk a well known dealer that trades on here gives up to 30% off at times. Just saying, as you know, that full RRP is likely 50-60% profit.

Good luck with the car, I know it's been a LONG wait. Will keep an eye out for your delivery thread.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by JustChris

In the uk a well known dealer that trades on here gives up to 30% off at times. Just saying, as you know, that full RRP is likely 50-60% profit.
Good luck with the car, I know it's been a LONG wait. Will keep an eye out for your delivery thread.

Many moons ago a BMW dealer somewhere in Europe told my brother who came to buy a BMW that, at least for his dealership, on the one hand, BMW kept the profit margin on the car itself low for the dealer, but that, on the other hand, BMW allowed them 50% profit on the options. Back in those days he even showed an internal document limiting discounts on the car price to maximum 8% (private person sales / non-fleet sales). To technically bypass that limit to avoid the potential customer to leave and buy a competing Mercedes or Audi, the dealership added free maintenance vouchers on top of the 8% if you bought the car loaded with options. Rationale: the possibility that you buy BMW and return in the future for maintenance or a new BMW, matters.

Either that dealer made that up as a cunning sales technique, or truly had an ad hoc deal with BMW. Asked my dealer about it in the past but he doesn't have a 50% profit margin on options. So unlikely that it still exists. But if it does, if you buy a loaded car the dealer got some margin to discuss in Europe (where most cars are still with 'à la carte' options list instead of just a few 'packs' limiting choice).

[flyaway]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Many moons ago a BMW dealer somewhere in Europe told my brother who came to buy a BMW that, at least for his dealership, on the one hand, BMW kept the profit margin on the car itself low for the dealer, but that, on the other hand, BMW allowed them 50% profit on the options. Back in those days he even showed an internal document limiting discounts on the car price to maximum 8% (private person sales / non-fleet sales). To technically bypass that limit to avoid the potential customer to leave and buy a competing Mercedes or Audi, the dealership added free maintenance vouchers on top of the 8% if you bought the car loaded with options. Rationale: the possibility that you buy BMW and return in the future for maintenance or a new BMW, matters.

Either that dealer made that up as a cunning sales technique, or truly had an ad hoc deal with BMW. Asked my dealer about it in the past but he doesn't have a 50% profit margin on options. So unlikely that it still exists. But if it does, if you buy a loaded car the dealer got some margin to discuss in Europe (where most cars are still with 'à la carte' options list instead of just a few 'packs' limiting choice).

One either got less than 8% discount and feels (needs to be) comforted by this post, either definitely got more and already knows the hilarious ‘’reality’’ of it.

[No one]

Originally Posted by flyaway

One either got less than 8% discount and feels (needs to be) comforted by this post, either definitely got more and already knows the hilarious ‘’reality’’ of it.

I got 4.5% - not comforted, really. Those margin arguments are just insulting: dumb for dumber, indeed. Even if it were true rather than obvious bullshit, why should I mind dealer's starving when it makes me to starve? "I want it all!"