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      08-17-2017, 11:57 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by auf Deutsch View Post
The stock light clutch (with clutch stop) is great for me. I'm interested in the shift upgrade hardware which you've mentioned in the past. What product is it and how much $ including labor?

I'ts a UUC short shifter for the M2. Shortens throws and makes engagement much more positive, with an easy-to-handle increase in shifter effort.

http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/ultim...-m2-p1832.aspx

The cost of the product is relatively minimal. Labor to install is what I would call advanced DYI level, so I had my shop do it. They quoted me 1.5 hours and it took them 2, but they stuck to their original estimate. I think the next one they do would be quicker, since mine was their first.


The other product is called the Ultimate Clutch Pedal. I don't like super light clutch action. The UCP, on the Sport setting, changes it from super light to light
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      08-17-2017, 12:10 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
I'ts a UUC short shifter for the M2. Shortens throws and makes engagement much more positive, with an easy-to-handle increase in shifter effort.

http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/ultim...-m2-p1832.aspx

The cost of the product is relatively minimal. Labor to install is what I would call advanced DYI level, so I had my shop do it. They quoted me 1.5 hours and it took them 2, but they stuck to their original estimate. I think the next one they do would be quicker, since mine was their first.


The other product is called the Ultimate Clutch Pedal. I don't like super light clutch action. The UCP, on the Sport setting, changes it from super light to light
$350 ain't bad, figure ~$200 for install. I'm seriously considering this.
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      08-17-2017, 12:24 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Anyone still trust Motor Trend after the last Lightning Lap driving?
Since when American magazines are unbiased? They always make sure American cars look good.
I don't think it is American bias at all as Motor Trend has been completely awful for awhile!!!

Nothing against the M2 as I almost bought one. But, size and weight wise 350 vs M4 seems more realistic. M2 doesn't pop into my head as a 350 competitor.
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      08-17-2017, 12:37 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Fake News 2017 View Post
I don't think it is American bias at all as Motor Trend has been completely awful for awhile!!!

Nothing against the M2 as I almost bought one. But, size and weight wise 350 vs M4 seems more realistic. M2 doesn't pop into my head as a 350 competitor.
Yeah, MT is garbage.

This is a weird comparison. The 350 is even bigger and heavier than the M4.
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      08-17-2017, 12:37 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake News 2017 View Post
I don't think it is American bias at all as Motor Trend has been completely awful for awhile!!!

Nothing against the M2 as I almost bought one. But, size and weight wise 350 vs M4 seems more realistic. M2 doesn't pop into my head as a 350 competitor.
It really comes down to price (at least in some markets) and packaging. There are a lot of ways to "classify" cars, and the M2 and GT350 are both coupes in the $55k to $60k range. Once you get past that broad picture, things get pretty different really quickly, but I can see why someone would compare them.

Of course, the M4 vs GT350 is a perfectly valid comparison as well.
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      08-17-2017, 12:44 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
It really comes down to price (at least in some markets) and packaging. There are a lot of ways to "classify" cars, and the M2 and GT350 are both coupes in the $55k to $60k range. Once you get past that broad picture, things get pretty different really quickly, but I can see why someone would compare them.

Of course, the M4 vs GT350 is a perfectly valid comparison as well.
Pricewise? I can see that.
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      08-17-2017, 01:14 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake News 2017 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Anyone still trust Motor Trend after the last Lightning Lap driving?
Since when American magazines are unbiased? They always make sure American cars look good.
I don't think it is American bias at all as Motor Trend has been completely awful for awhile!!!

Nothing against the M2 as I almost bought one. But, size and weight wise 350 vs M4 seems more realistic. M2 doesn't pop into my head as a 350 competitor.
Sizewise but if you compare interior volume the M2 is actually roomier than the GT350 and price wise they are very close which could make people cross shop them.
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      08-17-2017, 01:41 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
You know Billyj is a professional race car driver right? Lol
Yes, and what is your point?
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      08-17-2017, 01:52 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
You know Billyj is a professional race car driver right? Lol
With all due respect to Billy, just because someone is a race car driver doesn't make their opinions infallible.

I'd agree that the performance of the cars is close enough that there are circumstances where the M2 might come out on top, regardless of driver, but I'd also assert that the M4 is the faster car all-around. That is to say, you have to look for opportunities to cast the M2 as the faster car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
Agreed. Mostly the driver being the variable. What's his background?

The MT test was at Streets Of Willow. A useless autocross of a "track" on the side of a hill. That track is a joke for a car comparison.
Also agree 100% with this. Streets of Willow is a pretty damned horrible circuit. Not only is it tiny, but the track surface is worse than most roads I've driven. It's a very difficult track to use for comparison, because it's an outlier in size and condition.
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      08-17-2017, 02:24 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auf Deutsch View Post
$350 ain't bad, figure ~$200 for install. I'm seriously considering this.

I strongly recommend it.

You can mess with the knob, too, if you like. I have the cf kit for the 6MT, which has a cf inlay on the knob, or I would have changed mine.
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      08-17-2017, 02:52 PM   #77
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bruin1md View Post
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Originally Posted by 3Si View Post


Honestly, quite surprised by the results.
Why on earth won't they do these comparisons as true apples to apples and have both cars equipped with a 6MT?
Drives me nuts when I see one car with a DCT and the other with a 6MT being compared on the track.
Why don't they do a true apples to apples comparison, you ask?

You think a stick shift somehow makes it more fair?

What is fair about a 5 litre V8 versus a 3 litre inline 6?

Jesus H. Christ, man!

That M2 was extremely impressive.
You're a bit of a hater.

The m2 with dct is priced identically to the gt350 therefore very smart comparison from a cross shopping perspective and one that actual prospective buyers might appreciate.

I for one definitely cross shopped these two vehicles though no automatic for me. Same price with the mpe and higher interest rates at bmw though.

BTW 5L V8 vs turbo i6 doesn't seem super far fetched.
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      08-17-2017, 02:59 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
You're a bit of a hater.

The m2 with dct is priced identically to the gt350 therefore very smart comparison from a cross shopping perspective and one that actual prospective buyers might appreciate.

I for one definitely cross shopped these two vehicles though no automatic for me. Same price with the mpe and higher interest rates at bmw though.

BTW 5L V8 vs turbo i6 doesn't seem super far fetched.
Think you misunderstood the OP.
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      08-17-2017, 03:00 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Si
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
You're a bit of a hater.

The m2 with dct is priced identically to the gt350 therefore very smart comparison from a cross shopping perspective and one that actual prospective buyers might appreciate.

I for one definitely cross shopped these two vehicles though no automatic for me. Same price with the mpe and higher interest rates at bmw though.

BTW 5L V8 vs turbo i6 doesn't seem super far fetched.
Think you misunderstood the OP.
I think I might have
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      08-17-2017, 03:07 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post

Agreed. Mostly the driver being the variable. What's his background?

The driver for the hot laps is the lead instructor for Pinacle Advanced Driving Academy. He's not a professional driver, but he does compete in many local events. He practically lives at this track, so he's very familiar with the track. Having said that, these are not pressed cars, so he did admit not going all out and there are a couple seconds to be had. Keep in mind, we are not trying to compete with any of the major vloggers or car enthusiast channels. We do not have that kind of resources, time or man power. We are all just having some fun here.
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      08-17-2017, 03:27 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Sizewise but if you compare interior volume the M2 is actually roomier than the GT350 and price wise they are very close which could make people cross shop them.
wow, didn't know that
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      08-17-2017, 03:57 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
To be fair, cliches the reviewer DIDN'T use that seem to be annoyingly prominent in all other videos:

- "you can hardly tell it's turbocharged, it almost feels naturally aspirated"
- "virtually no turbo lag"
- "something something little brother to the M4 something more drifty"
- "it doesn't have an M motor but it doesn't matter"
- "it's EPS but you can't even tell"

And actually, the Mustang interior materials and build quality really are that bad particularly considering the price.
Don't forget the "mustangs don't turn" cliche
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      08-17-2017, 04:01 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by ///M3-=FiN=- View Post
I was gonna say the same about the refinement of the Ford.
Having had probably 10 Mustangs, I bought my first M3 in '98. Its damn near impossible to go back to a Mustang because they feel so cheap and poorly made. However, they have a fantastic 'bang for your buck' performance ratio.
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      08-17-2017, 04:35 PM   #84
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After the initial weeks excitement about my M2 I was quiet disappointed. I almost traded it in for a Stingray (less money, better rates, and loved it on the test drive) or a GT350; without even test driving one. However, after 7000km, adjusting my driving techniques, and learning to feel for different things i'm quite satisfied with my original purchase... i'm starting to get attached I don't wanna cheat on her and test drive the 350 now that I can!

The sound isn't on par with the V8 but if you learn to listen to the right things, it sounds good. If you can filter out the muffled sounds of the turbo its quite racy. I can't wait to take it to the track myself. Watching it beat the more powerful and hardcore car in this video put a genuine grin on my face.

On a side not, I rented a Shelby Hertz GT-H (5.0 with exhaust goodies) and was impressed. My brain said this interior is objectively crap but romping on it put that thought far out of my head- that car is mad fun. And my heart said its not bad, actually kind of cozy on the inside.
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      08-17-2017, 04:57 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by qnet View Post
I'm really anticipating that one, since I own an RS now. I noticed the RS in this video. I'm subbed to you guys now so I won't miss it.
They have done an RS vs R comparison and got quite a bit of flack for choosing the RS. I prefer the RS myself.
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      08-17-2017, 05:08 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Don't forget the "mustangs don't turn" cliche
I think the one thing that impressed me the most was the GT350's grip. For such a big/heavy car, there's a lot of grip. It doesn't handle like an M2, but if you manage the weight properly, it can hold its own in corners.
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      08-17-2017, 05:55 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post



I'd agree that the performance of the cars is close enough that there are circumstances where the M2 might come out on top, regardless of driver, but I'd also assert that the M4 is the faster car all-around. That is to say, you have to look for opportunities to cast the M2 as the faster car.
The M3/4 are both faster all-around cars. There shouldn't be any debate over this. Although on these tight tracks, the M2, with similar weight as M3/4, really showcases its agility and nimbleness. It's substantially down on power compared to M3/4 but makes up for it with such great maneuverability and balance.
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      08-17-2017, 06:27 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Anyone still trust Motor Trend after the last Lightning Lap driving?
LL is the biggest joke in automotive journalism. The "comparison" is done over the course of multiple days with multiple drivers of greatly varying levels of experience (5-10+ seconds off the pace) who drive a handful of cars. Driver A can be 5 seconds off driver B in the same car, so what does that tell you about the relative performance of two cars when two different guys are driving cars of similar performance.

Anyone who tracks their car often knows that track conditions change and a given track can vary by over a second from the early morning "happy-hour" to the heat of the day on the afternoon.

At least MT uses the same (competent) pro in their tests and attempt to do a legit comparison, even though they may have representatives from 1 mfg setting the car up and monitoring tire pressures, etc.. for their car, whole taking a shot in the dark for the other car (which may not be a fair fight when there's zero track support on the other side).

I haven't driven an M2 but the 350 is second(s) quicker than an M4 on most tracks; so the relative speed from an M4 to M2 should still put the 350 significantly ahead at the limit. Now which car is easier to extract performance out of for the amateur? Well this video with this driver and track, that would be the M2.

0.02

Last edited by Billj747; 08-17-2017 at 06:33 PM..
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