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      05-05-2016, 12:53 AM   #89
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In most cases, when you lease a car, you're not paying MSRP. My negotiated price on my M235 was $47 on a $51k MSRP car.

That "discount" from MSRP acts as a cap cost reduction and translates into big payment savings. The flip side is that it makes zero sense buying out the car at the end of the lease since the residual % you would be paying is a % of the higher MSRP number. Buying out the car would negate the initial savings from MSRP.

On the M2, since no one is getting anything under MSRP anyway, buying out the car at the end of the lease might make sense. So leasing at these horrible residuals might still be ok if in fact you end up buying the car at lease end.

The obvious downside is having an M4 or higher lease payment. But as others have said you will have equity after 3 years.
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      05-05-2016, 02:06 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
In most cases, when you lease a car, you're not paying MSRP. My negotiated price on my M235 was $47 on a $51k MSRP car.

That "discount" from MSRP acts as a cap cost reduction and translates into big payment savings. The flip side is that it makes zero sense buying out the car at the end of the lease since the residual % you would be paying is a % of the higher MSRP number. Buying out the car would negate the initial savings from MSRP.

On the M2, since no one is getting anything under MSRP anyway, buying out the car at the end of the lease might make sense. So leasing at these horrible residuals might still be ok if in fact you end up buying the car at lease end.

The obvious downside is having an M4 or higher lease payment. But as others have said you will have equity after 3 years.
This
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      05-05-2016, 04:45 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsid05
Quote:
Originally Posted by LinkF1 View Post
FYI for those looking at stripped M2 at MSRP for a $0 down 36mo/10k lease this puts you at roughly $750 before taxes and fees. (Fully loaded roughly $920).

Realistically you are looking at a $1030 payment after taxes and fees fully loaded. Approximately the same as a 60 month payment at the 2.99% BMW FS is offering.
These are horrendous lease terms. That lease payment is crazy for this car. If you are anywhere near $1k on a lease you should be in a more expensive car.
Right on, at $1k say hello to an Aston Martin!!!
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      05-05-2016, 04:49 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncmastr
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsid05
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Originally Posted by LinkF1 View Post
FYI for those looking at stripped M2 at MSRP for a $0 down 36mo/10k lease this puts you at roughly $750 before taxes and fees. (Fully loaded roughly $920).

Realistically you are looking at a $1030 payment after taxes and fees fully loaded. Approximately the same as a 60 month payment at the 2.99% BMW FS is offering.
These are horrendous lease terms. That lease payment is crazy for this car. If you are anywhere near $1k on a lease you should be in a more expensive car.
Right on, at $1k say hello to an Aston Martin!!!
Where are you going to lease an Aston for 1k??
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      05-05-2016, 04:53 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
Current lease residuals and money factor for 36 month lease on an M2:

47% - 15k miles
49% - 12k miles
50% - 10k miles
Money factor is .00138

Residuals values are down and money factor has crept up since the last published figures.
Funny cause I got the you deserve a BMW email last night. True credit union rates are better but what do you think of BMW select numbers? March rate was great but those numbers are gone
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      05-05-2016, 05:22 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
I don't understand the mentality of all those that are into leasing. It's like so many people in this thread have no idea that you can actually PURCHASE a car rather than lease it.
It's not a "mentality", it's simple math and convenience. Some cars I lease; some I buy. I bought our X3 because we plan to keep it for several years. A better way too put it is that I don't have a finite timescale on which I intend to turn the X3 around in to a new car, so I bought it. When I picked up my M3, I knew it wasn't a car that I was going to own long term. It's a car I wanted to enjoy for a time, then be rid of.

The thing is, I really don't want to deal with selling a car privately. Especially an M3. It's just something that I don't have time for. Leasing is a lot like buying with a pre-arranged agreement to sell the car. Fiscally speaking, you pay a penalty in the form of a higher finance fee, but (in many states), you only pay sales tax on the payments, so there's an offset there. It still ends up costing a little more, but for me, it's worth it if it fits with my plan for the car.
I was more referring to people that don't use BOTH as an alternative. People see the lease rates ( which I've already known since 2011 they will be horrible and will CONTINUE to be horrible- see last month's thread on M2 lease rates. .. ). And they are like - ok I'm out... I'm gonna F OFF and lease an M4 now.

That's the mentality I am referring to. It's as if they didn't even attempt to perform any calculations. Then again , it's also fairly clear that most people don't want a SPECIFIC car,
They want A car. Perhaps because they only want to lease ?

It's amazing to watch that more than half of the upset M2 buyers in this thread will buy ( or apparently lease ) an M235/M3/M4 and another one third will go get a Porsche..

Go BMW ///Marketing !
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      05-05-2016, 06:40 AM   #95
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Was thinking about this a little more this morning...

what if... in 3 years, the M2 is in plentiful supply, has a full range of colors, 30 more hp, and maybe a competition package?

I wonder what that would do to a 3 year old M2....
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      05-05-2016, 06:53 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999
Was thinking about this a little more this morning...

what if... in 3 years, the M2 is in plentiful supply, has a full range of colors, 30 more hp, and maybe a competition package?

I wonder what that would do to a 3 year old M2....
And then you woke up ..?



Let's take a look at the M4.
3 years old - check !
Plentiful ? - check!
30 more hp- check! - (comp pkg - $5k)
Range of colors -


If the plan is to wait 3 years and buy a used M2.. You've lots of time to daydream! If you want an M2 now .. is it worth missing out on 3 years of fun to pay 5K more and likely get the same color ?
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      05-05-2016, 07:10 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
And then you woke up ..?

Let's take a look at the M4.
3 years old - check !
Plentiful ? - check!
30 more hp- check! - (comp pkg - $5k)
Range of colors -


If the plan is to wait 3 years and buy a used M2.. You've lots of time to daydream! If you want an M2 now .. is it worth missing out on 3 years of fun to pay 5K more and likely get the same color ?
What in God's name made you think I was waiting 3 years to get a M2? I'm merely throwing out some ideas on why the residuals might be so low. I'm not even sure I mentioned that I'm next up on the list at my dealer, but that is besides the point. Wait... are you one of those folks who said the 1M would drop in value when the M2 came out?

And last I checked, I don't see any 2014 M4s for sale...

and don't get me started on the standard color option for the M3/M4.
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      05-05-2016, 09:07 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox73 View Post
Sort of. Single-pay lease rates are extremely low, close to a zero percent interest. I ran a calculation for my M3 comparing the lowest finance rate I could get from BMW (1.9%) against a lease-purchase scenario using a single-payment lease. The money factor for single-pay lease was so low it actually does wind up cheaper to lease for three years then buy the car, rather than to buy the car outright. And if I decide to return the car in 3 years, I'll have spent less over the three year lease than I would have over three years of a 5-year financing term.
Nice to meet someone else who understands what the cost of financing is My axioms were focused primarily on the typical 36-month amortized lease scenario. There are many in this thread who would choke on their biscuit at the suggestion of a single-payment lease. Personally, I don't do them because of the loss risk in the event of a total loss accident. You can insure against that, but it offsets the finance rate savings. Still a viable option though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox73 View Post
In a lease transaction the company is guaranteeing the residual, true, but they are also still financing the risk that the lessee won't make payments. That doesn't go away with a lease, it just gets layered on top of the residual risk. Maybe that's what you meant, just clarifying.
Yeah, that's exactly what I meant Leases represent additional risk to finance companies, which pushes the rate up.
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      05-05-2016, 09:17 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
In most cases, when you lease a car, you're not paying MSRP. My negotiated price on my M235 was $47 on a $51k MSRP car.

That "discount" from MSRP acts as a cap cost reduction and translates into big payment savings. The flip side is that it makes zero sense buying out the car at the end of the lease since the residual % you would be paying is a % of the higher MSRP number. Buying out the car would negate the initial savings from MSRP.

On the M2, since no one is getting anything under MSRP anyway, buying out the car at the end of the lease might make sense. So leasing at these horrible residuals might still be ok if in fact you end up buying the car at lease end.

The obvious downside is having an M4 or higher lease payment. But as others have said you will have equity after 3 years.
The statement in bold is factually incorrect. Any negotiated reduction in price is realized in the total cost of purchase because your payments over the term of the lease were reduced. Do the math:

Total purchase cost = sum of payments + residual purchase amount

The sum of your payments is the cap cost + finance fees + transaction costs. So your cap cost reduction is realized as savings in that sum. The only thing that changes when you lease vs buy are the finance fees and the transaction costs. The negotiated price is the negotiated price.
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      05-05-2016, 09:52 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by guarnibl View Post
Probably know that many people will buy this over an M4 anyway and with limited availability they'll get it on a lease all day long. MB leases are probably comparable residual wise. Wonder what a 718 Cayman leases for....

IMO right move on BMWs part.
Porsche rates are brutally high. Everyone is going crazy over M2....I bet there will be unsold units at dealers in a few months. Great car but a lot of hype.
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      05-05-2016, 09:53 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335BOY
Quote:
Originally Posted by guarnibl View Post
Probably know that many people will buy this over an M4 anyway and with limited availability they'll get it on a lease all day long. MB leases are probably comparable residual wise. Wonder what a 718 Cayman leases for....

IMO right move on BMWs part.
Porsche rates are brutally high. Everyone is going crazy over M2....I bet there will be unsold units at dealers in a few months. Great car but a lot of hype.
Probably
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      05-05-2016, 10:22 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335BOY
Quote:
Originally Posted by guarnibl View Post
Probably know that many people will buy this over an M4 anyway and with limited availability they'll get it on a lease all day long. MB leases are probably comparable residual wise. Wonder what a 718 Cayman leases for....

IMO right move on BMWs part.
Porsche rates are brutally high. Everyone is going crazy over M2....I bet there will be unsold units at dealers in a few months. Great car but a lot of hype.
I'm pretty sure the well informed people already knew the numbers would be bad and don't plan on leasing. I don't know why everyone is so surprised. It's a brand new model. Since when does BMW ever set high residuals on those? As far as cars just sitting on the lots to rot, that's ridiculous statement. The only cars available will be ones with market adjustments. The two series isn't a high volume model to begin with.
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      05-05-2016, 11:23 AM   #103
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This is simply supply and demand. M2's are in short supply so no subsidy on the leases.
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      05-05-2016, 01:03 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
Was thinking about this a little more this morning...

what if... in 3 years, the M2 is in plentiful supply, has a full range of colors, 30 more hp, and maybe a competition package?

I wonder what that would do to a 3 year old M2....
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
And then you woke up ..?



Let's take a look at the M4.
3 years old - check !
Plentiful ? - check!
30 more hp- check! - (comp pkg - $5k)
Range of colors -


If the plan is to wait 3 years and buy a used M2.. You've lots of time to daydream! If you want an M2 now .. is it worth missing out on 3 years of fun to pay 5K more and likely get the same color ?
In 3 years, the 58 will replace the 55, the LCI will bring more M styling cues, CF, mirrors. The next-gen M3 will be the hot topic. A bunch of lease return M3/M4's.

A plain jane M2 isn't going to bring a premium price in a crowded market. If you are looking for a value proposition, you need to wait for the CS/CSL/GTS version which will be built in limited quantities.
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      05-05-2016, 01:12 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by F87LUV View Post
Happy I didn't wait for another set of bad numbers. Penfed payment saver ftw.

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      05-05-2016, 01:48 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by F87LUV View Post
I'm pretty sure the well informed people already knew the numbers would be bad and don't plan on leasing. I don't know why everyone is so surprised. It's a brand new model. Since when does BMW ever set high residuals on those? As far as cars just sitting on the lots to rot, that's ridiculous statement. The only cars available will be ones with market adjustments. The two series isn't a high volume model to begin with.
That's a valid point, but a "bad" residual is 55%. I don't know that I've seen 50% before.
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      05-05-2016, 01:51 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by F87LUV View Post
Happy I didn't wait for another set of bad numbers. Penfed payment saver ftw.
Looks like the Penfed payment saver rate is a half point lower than BMW FS finance rate. Heh. Anyone willing to take on the residual value risk would be well advised to have a close look at their program.
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      05-05-2016, 01:54 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland
Quote:
Originally Posted by F87LUV View Post
I'm pretty sure the well informed people already knew the numbers would be bad and don't plan on leasing. I don't know why everyone is so surprised. It's a brand new model. Since when does BMW ever set high residuals on those? As far as cars just sitting on the lots to rot, that's ridiculous statement. The only cars available will be ones with market adjustments. The two series isn't a high volume model to begin with.
That's a valid point, but a "bad" residual is 55%. I don't know that I've seen 50% before.
Well BMW overall isn't doing as well as it used to. Look at the April 2016 figures. That could be another reason. I knew from the start that the lease would be horrible on the M2 so I financed it. Yes, I can sit here and worry about what's going to happen three years from now or I can enjoy my new car.

I'm not sure if it matters or if they based it off of the M3 but penfed is using a 67% residual for 36 and 49% for 60 months.
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      05-05-2016, 01:56 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland
Quote:
Originally Posted by F87LUV View Post
Happy I didn't wait for another set of bad numbers. Penfed payment saver ftw.
Looks like the Penfed payment saver rate is a half point lower than BMW FS finance rate. Heh. Anyone willing to take on the residual value risk would be well advised to have a close look at their program.
Actually that's not true. Regardless of what information was posted online, the apr was 3.99% for tier one bmw select when I took delivery while it was advertised at 2.97% everywhere.
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      05-05-2016, 02:04 PM   #110
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Penfed money saver loan (balloon) is what I did. Paying in the mid 600's. No money down.
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