[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by Rossifumi

OK, not really what I would consider luxury options but I hear you. The colors offered are probably the most popular colors anyway so not a huge issue for most people. If the interior does have added extras like the 1M I understand the take it or leave it black only. Otherwise it is quite strange as it seams to be straight from the series car.

So basically it has every option (excluding colors) the series car has except adaptive dampers and front PDC. So me personally wouldn't really call it compromised but others, as you say, might do...

Right. I was just trying to make a point that even if minor, the M2 is more limited than the M235i. If the price reaches too high, it is just as likely to pull people down to the M235i as it is to pull people up to the M3. BMW made a very capable car in the M235i, and while it will never be an M2, it isn't without merit.

I guess this really depends on how many BMW decides to make. If we only see 6 per year for the biggest dealerships, the car can be priced $55k to start and they will all be bought. Does this really achieve BMW's aim at attracting young buyers into the M market? No, it just keeps them salivating and buying something else.

[LinkF1]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Does this really achieve BMW's aim at attracting young buyers into the M market? No, it just keeps them salivating and buying something else.

Hit the nail on the head there.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Right. I was just trying to make a point that even if minor, the M2 is more limited than the M235i. If the price reaches too high, it is just as likely to pull people down to the M235i as it is to pull people up to the M3. BMW made a very capable car in the M235i, and while it will never be an M2, it isn't without merit.

I guess this really depends on how many BMW decides to make. If we only see 6 per year for the biggest dealerships, the car can be priced $55k to start and they will all be bought. Does this really achieve BMW's aim at attracting young buyers into the M market? No, it just keeps them salivating and buying something else.

If the M market also to a certain extent includes the M performance models... as well as excitement around M2 leading to a buyer then choosing the better value in an M3/M4... it worked the first time and will work again.

As you just stated.. if anything.. the 1M (and then the lack of the 1M.. and we are still seeing that wave 5 years later or 1Ms would be selling for the same price as an E9x) is what whetted the market for the M235..

Originally Posted by LinkF1

Hit the nail on the head there.

If the M2 is priced right in the middle.. and then is limited.. many buyers will do exactly what you just said... they will F off and buy an M235 or an M3 or M4... Sure.. A few might go buy Caymans... not too many.. because the Porsches are more expensive... and a few will go buy Mustangs... perhaps an Audi TT. But the majority of people that walk into a BMW dealer more than likely will be taken over to an M235 (it's in stock! or then it becomes.. well.. hey.. come check out this M4 we have on the lot in stock )

It's the EXACT way that this marketing should occur

BMW AG creates marketing buzz to Attract buyer - BMW DEALER sales person Sells a Car

In sales training speak... BMW AG sells the sizzle... and the dealer then sells the customer A steak.
Just because the customer got excited about the T bone... doesn't mean that they won't eat a Ribeye!

Just because the buyer comes in as an M2 buyer doesn't mean they will walk out without a BMW. The buyer that really wants an M2 will get in line and wait patiently.. The great majority of car buyers will shift to another item.. and probably from the same BMW store.


It's kinda funny to watch people wonder if this will continue... when even MORE people are queued up waiting for an M2 compared to the number of people waiting for a 1M at this very same point in 2010.


it's like you are ignoring what you already know to be true.. you literally stated the exact reason for sustaining this model... and then said.. I wonder if It will happen..

[hyperzulu]

I guess I sometimes mix rational thought with my own hopes (or concerns). I want to be an idealist and see BMW market a car as an entry level M for entry level money aimed at entry level M buyers. More likely it'll be all of that, but BMW isn't interested in the last part at all. It'll be really hard to get, lease worse than an Audi and be priced a little more expensive than it should.

[Jackie Chiles]

Meh, I might pay more than what you guys are discussing if the M2 has a sharper focus and is more fun to drive - more of a track/driver's car - than an M3-4.

But I generally agree that if the M2 is to the 2 series what the M4 is to the 4 series that it should carry essentially the same premium as the other M variants.

Does that make sense? Its late in the day and I'm under caffeinated.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles

Meh, I might pay more than what you guys are discussing if the M2 has a sharper focus and is more fun to drive - more of a track/driver's car - than an M3-4.

But I generally agree that if the M2 is to the 2 series what the M4 is to the 4 series that it should carry essentially the same premium as the other M variants.

Does that make sense? Its late in the day and I'm under caffeinated.

Yes, we've been arguing about this for months now. But seriously though if the M2 were as heavily contented and bespoke as the M4, it would cost nearly the same price as the M4. Some folks would be OK with that, but a CSL will be developed to fill those needs, perhaps, even if it costs more than an M4.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Right. I was just trying to make a point that even if minor, the M2 is more limited than the M235i. If the price reaches too high, it is just as likely to pull people down to the M235i as it is to pull people up to the M3. BMW made a very capable car in the M235i, and while it will never be an M2, it isn't without merit.
I guess this really depends on how many BMW decides to make. If we only see 6 per year for the biggest dealerships, the car can be priced $55k to start and they will all be bought. Does this really achieve BMW's aim at attracting young buyers into the M market? No, it just keeps them salivating and buying something else.

People drooling over the M2 but "pulled down" (as you call it) because of its price-point, won't forget the car. It's like a flame that keeps quietly burning in the back of the petrol head mind. The yearning will remain for years with some "trust me, someday I *will* get myself one, definitely" determination.

Let's see how the M2 will be welcomed. I trust that it will be an instant hit. Time will tell whether it will also be an instant classic. Still from that 'old skool manual transmission 6-cylinder without e-drive' era.

I know from personal experience that the yearning of younger people for the 1M is still very much alive, as we speak. Some people who weren't in the market back in 2010/2011, absolutely want to get their hands on one. True story.

Allow me to make a bold statement: even if the M2 price-point would be (very) close to M3/M4 territory - quod non -, I'd still choose the M2. Money matters, but so does size (influencing the driving dynamics)...

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Allow me to make a bold statement: even if the M2 price-point would be (very) close to M3/M4 territory - quod non -, I'd still choose the M2. Money matters, but so does size (influencing the driving dynamics)...

That's not really a bold statement. It just reinforces some of my confusion with this car. The car is limited, but even if it were $60k and came as a baby M4, it would still sell out without any problems.

Why limit this car in an effort to bring down price, but then price out of the hands of first time M buyers who aren't willing to spend M4 money? Folks like M3 Adjuster seem to think it's just a BMW marketing engine at work, where this car draws interest but ultimately sells shoppers a different car. Which makes some sense but doesn't address the initial point - the car is limited to bring down price. But if BMW only produces a handful of these, it doesn't matter if the car is $55k and limited or $60k and just as bespoke as the M4. People will end up shopping other cars simply because they don't want to deal with the M2 availability.

And before anyone says you can't make it a baby M4 without hurting M4 sales, that's a bunch of BS. Again, there are six M4s sitting on the lot and the dealer tells you there is a four month wait for the next M2 allocation. I don't care if it has Nappa leather in any color you want or five different shades of M specific colors to choose from or an S55 under the hood, you're going to get a lot of people that simply don't want to wait that long and will buy the M4. The guys who end up waiting are the guys you really can't even get into an M4 because they want the size of the M2.

Case in point, this car makes no sense. LOL

[Cope]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

That's not really a bold statement. It just reinforces some of my confusion with this car. The car is limited, but even if it were $60k and came as a baby M4, it would still sell out without any problems.

Why limit this car in an effort to bring down price, but then price out of the hands of first time M buyers who aren't willing to spend M4 money? Folks like M3 Adjuster seem to think it's just a BMW marketing engine at work, where this car draws interest but ultimately sells shoppers a different car. Which makes some sense but doesn't address the initial point - the car is limited to bring down price. But if BMW only produces a handful of these, it doesn't matter if the car is $55k and limited or $60k and just as bespoke as the M4. People will end up shopping other cars simply because they don't want to deal with the M2 availability.

And before anyone says you can't make it a baby M4 without hurting M4 sales, that's a bunch of BS. Again, there are six M4s sitting on the lot and the dealer tells you there is a four month wait for the next M2 allocation. I don't care if it has Nappa leather in any color you want or five different shades of M specific colors to choose from or an S55 under the hood, you're going to get a lot of people that simply don't want to wait that long and will buy the M4. The guys who end up waiting are the guys you really can't even get into an M4 because they want the size of the M2.

Case in point, this car makes no sense. LOL

Remember you're trying to rationalize the decisions made by the same company that brought you the 5GT, X6, a sedan misidentified as a coupe, and preached RWD for decades only to make a FWD minivan.

All you need to know as that this will be the current production bmw to own.

[Gibson6594]

Well, I will say this... If the M2 is nearing the 60k mark, I will be purchasing a 235, or something comparable. They aren't going to get M3 money from me for this car.

[jackelliott]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

Well, I will say this... If the M2 is nearing the 60k mark, I will be purchasing a 235, or something comparable. They aren't going to get M3 money from me for this car.

Exactly

[Gibson6594]

I equate this car to Verizon Fios. At the outset, Verizon made very little money off of new fios customers, due to the initial capital required, but they knew they had a great product and that people would not leave once they tried it. BMW wants people to partake in the M2 experience so they can stick around for bigger (more expensive) and badder M cars.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

I equate this car to Verizon Fios. At the outset, Verizon made very little money off of new fios customers, due to the initial capital required, but they knew they had a great product and that people would not leave once they tried it. BMW wants people to partake in the M2 experience so they can stick around for bigger (more expensive) and badder M cars.

^^^^ What he said.

[M2 CSL]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

I equate this car to Verizon Fios. At the outset, Verizon made very little money off of new fios customers, due to the initial capital required, but they knew they had a great product and that people would not leave once they tried it. BMW wants people to partake in the M2 experience so they can stick around for bigger (more expensive) and badder M cars.

I left Fios because it got too expensive after adding all the options (cable packages). Wasn't worth it anymore. Sucked because it had so much potential.

[Cope]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

I equate this car to Verizon Fios. At the outset, Verizon made very little money off of new fios customers, due to the initial capital required, but they knew they had a great product and that people would not leave once they tried it. BMW wants people to partake in the M2 experience so they can stick around for bigger (more expensive) and badder M cars.

If the M2 is anything like the 1M it won't leave you wanting the bigger and badder M cars. In fact you'll probably start bemoaning about bloat, and lack of character among those M cars.

People said similar things about the 1M price even before the sustained markups. Then imagine the ridiculous comparisons when 1Ms costed more than M3s. These cars are just not for everyone, and they certainly don't make any attempt to rectify that observation.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Ummm2

I left Fios because it got too expensive after adding all the options (cable packages). Wasn't worth it anymore. Sucked because it had so much potential.

LOVE my FIOS. Paying $129 with sports package and no other cable add ons. Rocking 80Mb/s both UP and DOWN per speedtest app. Wicked!

[LinkF1]

Originally Posted by Artemis

People drooling over the M2 but "pulled down" (as you call it) because of its price-point, won't forget the car. It's like a flame that keeps quietly burning in the back of the petrol head mind. The yearning will remain for years with some "trust me, someday I *will* get myself one, definitely" determination.

Unless they (I) buy one new it does relatively little for BMW for them (me) to have that flame burning for this M2. They (I) will move on to another car if this car is overpriced. The risk BMW takes is that their (my) 2nd choice is also a BMW.

Let's see how the M2 will be welcomed. I trust that it will be an instant hit. Time will tell whether it will also be an instant classic. Still from that 'old skool manual transmission 6-cylinder without e-drive' era.

I agree it will be an instant hit from a magazine and enthusiast perspective. But how well has meeting that same criteria done for the M235i?

I know from personal experience that the yearning of younger people for the 1M is still very much alive, as we speak. Some people who weren't in the market back in 2010/2011, absolutely want to get their hands on one. True story.

I am in this exact situation, I know the feeling well, when I went to buy in 2013 my car was the best option for a small coupe available at the time for Euro Delivery. If the 1M had still been available, and was eligible for ED, I would have picked it up then.

Allow me to make a bold statement: even if the M2 price-point would be (very) close to M3/M4 territory - quod non -, I'd still choose the M2. Money matters, but so does size (influencing the driving dynamics)...

Size is very important to me, so my heart wants to make the same statement, but my head sees the reality of the situation. The M3 will provide additional value, if the prices are within 5-7k, it will be a hard decision.

[PackPride85]

I could get over the size of the M3 if the price of the M2 was similar. The M3 is just a much better value in that case. Unfortunately, my budget doesn't go that high anyway so its either M2 or something else.

[W///]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

I could get over the size of the M3 if the price of the M2 was similar. The M3 is just a much better value in that case. Unfortunately, my budget doesn't go that high anyway so its either M2 or something else.

That's why I've been over the F80 forums a lot more these past few days. A stripper M3 assuming you get a good deal (not impossible to do if you research), while paying MSRP for the M2 will bring them pretty decently close to each other IMO. A couple hundred bucks more a month is not going to be the end of me.

Having said that, I have very very little doubt that the M2 will be the more fun car. No reason it shouldn't be on the same level as the 1M. However, if I get the F80 M3, I can retire the E36 as my DD, and still have an E92 M3 for weekends. So maybe an F80 with its 4 doors would make more sense. I dunno anymore.

I briefly was dreaming about the M2 CSL, but seeing as the M4 GTS will cost double the price of a base M4, that dream has been shattered.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by W///

That's why I've been over the F80 forums a lot more these past few days. A stripper M3 assuming you get a good deal (not impossible to do if you research), while paying MSRP for the M2 will bring them pretty decently close to each other IMO. A couple hundred bucks more a month is not going to be the end of me.

Having said that, I have very very little doubt that the M2 will be the more fun car. No reason it shouldn't be on the same level as the 1M. However, if I get the F80 M3, I can retire the E36 as my DD, and still have an E92 M3 for weekends. So maybe an F80 with its 4 doors would make more sense. I dunno anymore.

I briefly was dreaming about the M2 CSL, but seeing as the M4 GTS will cost double the price of a base M4, that dream has been shattered.

That was fun to read. It was interesting to see your thinking process through what you posted. It was like you were thinking and processing as you typed.

My thoughts...Which ever one you choose will be a great choice. Can you really go wrong with either the M2 or the M3? If you take the nuances out, you will have fun with either of them. Stop thinking so much, give the thinking and processing a break for a couple weeks then revisit it and you will have a much clearer picture in your mind. Trust me! Good Luck in your choice.

[W///]

Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf

That was fun to read. It was interesting to see your thinking process through what you posted. It was like you were thinking and processing as you typed.

My thoughts...Which ever one you choose will be a great choice. Can you really go wrong with either the M2 or the M3? If you take the nuances out, you will have fun with either of them. Stop thinking so much, give the thinking and processing a break for a couple weeks then revisit it and you will have a much clearer picture in your mind. Trust me! Good Luck in your choice.

You are 100% right. We've all waited this long, we might as well wait it out for the next couple of weeks. And you absolutely cannot go wrong with either an M2 or M3, just depends what you need. I'm all over the map. I even considered a 328d Touring a while ago

And this isn't just limited to BMW either. There are some truly amazing cars coming out at the same time.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by W///

That's why I've been over the F80 forums a lot more these past few days. A stripper M3 assuming you get a good deal (not impossible to do if you research), while paying MSRP for the M2 will bring them pretty decently close to each other IMO. A couple hundred bucks more a month is not going to be the end of me.
Having said that, I have very very little doubt that the M2 will be the more fun car. No reason it shouldn't be on the same level as the 1M. However, if I get the F80 M3, I can retire the E36 as my DD, and still have an E92 M3 for weekends. So maybe an F80 with its 4 doors would make more sense. I dunno anymore.
I briefly was dreaming about the M2 CSL, but seeing as the M4 GTS will cost double the price of a base M4, that dream has been shattered.

...and then you get married ...and before you fully realize, the other half is already spec'ing a 2er Active Tourer or something alike, whilst mumbling that "the time has come to splash the cash on «the more important things of life»".
Let freedom ring: get the M2, before others can stop you.