[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

No_curebimmer - is that them saying 'ya ya we're the experts' or that really is it, in regards to keeping the front end up?

Like you I'd be annoyed how the front is doing the lowrider thing and it'd be a real pain for some of the city roads/parking lot entrances.

Good to hear the overall compliance is improved though!

Thank you for chiming in!

Yeah, well, the Indy shop is well regarded here in the Dallas Ft Worth area; I used them for other work and never disappointed. So, I can't really tell if the front is the max height or there is the installation could be improved.

I chose the B16s since I think they have the min drop compared to KW3, Ohlins, MPS etc…

Y'all think I should take it back for another tech to re-inspect the height adjustments? Anyone else rocking the B16s and ended up having this issue? The fronts ended up being lower by 59.5 mm…is that the expectation? The B16s never came w/ instructions in the box

Regardless, I will reach out to the vendor I bought them from (Turner Motorsport) and ask for input/advise.

[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

No_curebimmer - is that them saying 'ya ya we're the experts' or that really is it, in regards to keeping the front end up?

Like you I'd be annoyed how the front is doing the lowrider thing and it'd be a real pain for some of the city roads/parking lot entrances.

Good to hear the overall compliance is improved though!

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

is that them saying 'ya ya we're the experts' or that really is it, in regards to keeping the front end up?

Something is amiss: I asked the Indy shop for a MINIMUM drop; the paper document the tech wrote up after the install mentioned 59 and 61 mm. According to the Bilstein, the height drop range is 30-50 mm both F and R.

I will be going back

[squixs]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

Something is amiss: I asked the Indy shop for a MINIMUM drop; the paper document the tech wrote up after the install mentioned 59 and 61 mm. According to the Bilstein, the height drop range is 30-50 mm both F and R.

I will be going back

590 F is around the lowest that the MPS can go. I’d would be surprised if the B16s can’t to higher. If adjusted my set to be at 595.

[leopard print]

I’m no suspension expert, but I just put on TC Klines and it feels similar to stock except it’s considerably more forgiving on bumps and road imperfections.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

Something is amiss: I asked the Indy shop for a MINIMUM drop; the paper document the tech wrote up after the install mentioned 59 and 61 mm. According to the Bilstein, the height drop range is 30-50 mm both F and R.

I will be going back

Good call! Even good shops can have a brain fart now and again.
For proper, well-regarded kit (that's not meant to be slammed) it really doea seem deep.
Hope they have no problem sorting it.

[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

Good call! Even good shops can have a brain fart now and again.
For proper, well-regarded kit (that's not meant to be slammed) it really doea seem deep.
Hope they have no problem sorting it.

Hey - thanks, good to have some support from one of the more knowledgeable and helpful forum members! I didn't want to shrug and accept it as is and be happy that the ride has definitely improved (especially since I paid a PRETTY penny to have these installed)

So, and this is my bad as I have never made any suspension updates on any of my previous bimmers, or other autos: the paper that the shop printed it out for me said F 595mm and 610mm in the rear. I mistook that as a typo (59.5 mm drop not 595mm). Then it dawned on me that these measurements represent the actual height from the floor to the fender…

Regardless, this post clearly proves that the M2C w/ Bilstein B16 can be set higher…

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24525012

I sent an email to the shop to work w/ me and relook at the installation: it has to be higher as the B16 seems to be one of the more conservative coilovers available for the F87 (I believe B16 can go higher than KW V3s).

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

PS almost pulled the trigger on the Litchfield Motors BMW M2 BILSTEIN KIT, just didn't want to pay quite a bit more for shipping from UK and potentially import taxes and fees.

I've got the Litchfield Motors AST kit, which was the previous product to their road biased Bilstein kit, it had the same spring rates and damping curves.

Lucky for me they're only 1.5 hours drive from home so i can drive there, get parts fitted and drive back same day.

I had some problems with the adjustable front drop link lock nuts coming loose and knocking but they sorted that with a free service too and AST developed a new part to sort it fully.

The kit is great, i don't do track work just fast road hooning. It felt fidgety at low speed and a bit softly sprung at first compared to stock but that's misleading, the ride at speed and body control over fast rolling crests and dips is superb, the faster you go the better it gets which is a good sign. Now you can actually feel the tyres working which on stock suspension was masked.

It let's the car move and roll but in a beautifully controlled manner. Some like the teeth jarring track setup, but that would spoil my M2 as, let's face it, its not a track car!

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

For daily drive V3 > MPS. MP is much stiffer.

Incorrect. The spring rates on the KWV3 are stiffer than those of the MPS, and the shock body is the same.

[2045]

I have been very happy with my Öhlins. Worth to note that my shocks were valved differently (softer) than the standard RT kit and Öhlins is taking feedbacks from me to decide if this will be available for a "touring" kit that focused more for ride comfort and street use.

While I'm happy with the overall ride quality so far, they are sending me an extra pair of rear springs that are 20lbs softer than my current set to try.

[Ratcher]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Incorrect. The spring rates on the KWV3 are stiffer than those of the MPS, and the shock body is the same.

I've had both so I hope I'm entitled to compare.
Also the V3 has a helper spring, which the MP doesn't.

The difference in comfort is obvious.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

I've had both so I hope I'm entitled to compare.
Also the V3 has a helper spring, which the MP doesn't.

The difference in comfort is obvious.

No disrespect, but I have spoken to KW about this exact thing, and the rates on the V3 are higher. With identical settings the MPS will ride softer, although it won't be by a lot because the rates are very similar.

And yes, the helper spring, the ability to go lower, they are advantages of the V3 (if someone needs those advantages).

[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by squixs

590 F is around the lowest that the MPS can go. I’d would be surprised if the B16s can’t to higher. If adjusted my set to be at 595.

Just talked to the shop- they'd be happy to recheck the installation but they restated that the front is the highest it can go. I'm confused as I have seen other M2C w/ the Bilstein B16 rocking a higher front…and some owners even reported lowering as little as 20-25 mm from stock.

Related questions:

1. as most coilovers would "settle" after ~2k miles/a few weeks or so and would go even lower by about 5-10mm, should I wait to bring it back?

2. Afterwards, would I need to rebalance it? The shop balanced it right after the coilover install.

3. Dumb-ass question, but why can't I find the written installation instructions for these PSS B10 (they weren't included in the package). Dr Google yielded me with zero results…not even Bilstein's website had the actual pdf. I would like to see if I can adjust the height myself just in case. In a week or so, I will be taking off the wheels to ceramic coat them w/ CARPRO CQUARTZ DLUX Wheel and Trim Coat, and it will be a great opportunity to see if I can adjust the height myself.

This is my first ever suspension upgrade so I have no idea what I'm doing, but it has to be some sort of rotating and locking collar?

Anywho…I appreciate any input on this folks!

[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by doughboy

I've got the Litchfield Motors AST kit, which was the previous product to their road biased Bilstein kit, it had the same spring rates and damping curves.

Lucky for me they're only 1.5 hours drive from home so i can drive there, get parts fitted and drive back same day.

I had some problems with the adjustable front drop link lock nuts coming loose and knocking but they sorted that with a free service too and AST developed a new part to sort it fully.

The kit is great, i don't do track work just fast road hooning. It felt fidgety at low speed and a bit softly sprung at first compared to stock but that's misleading, the ride at speed and body control over fast rolling crests and dips is superb, the faster you go the better it gets which is a good sign. Now you can actually feel the tyres working which on stock suspension was masked.

It let's the car move and roll but in a beautifully controlled manner. Some like the teeth jarring track setup, but that would spoil my M2 as, let's face it, its not a track car!

I was going to go that route but I feared the tax man. Not sure what the import fees would have been, so decided on the regular B16!

Aside from the front height which is too low for my liking (595mm, lower wheel to fender), these have transformed the car for the MUCH better: planted, more precise turn-ins/cornering with a more compliant overall ride.

[x233]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

This is my first ever suspension upgrade so I have no idea what I'm doing, but it has to be some sort of rotating and locking collar?

That would be when one should know to stick with the BMW M Performance kit, of all the options.

[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by x233

That would be when one should know to stick with the BMW M Performance kit, of all the options.

I am sure your post was trying to be beneficial, but alluding to the fact that I have chosen the wrong coilover kit (i.e. not OEM) doesn't seem to be very helpful.

I was simply referring to height adjustment commonality between most coilover systems having spanner wrenches and rotating collars. KW, Ohlins, Bilstein, and yes, even M Performance should all use similar adjustments tools and techniques.

[x233]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

I am sure your post was trying to be beneficial, but alluding to the fact that I have chosen the wrong coilover kit (i.e. not OEM) doesn't seem to be very helpful.

I was simply referring to height adjustment commonality between most coilover systems having spanner wrenches and rotating collars. KW, Ohlins, Bilstein, and yes, even M Performance should all use similar adjustments tools and techniques.

See your problem is you can take the car back to the shop as many times as you want but you don't even know what to ask them to do. That wouldn't be a problem with the OEM kit. But it is what it is. If you keep the kit you've got you are probably looking at a learning curve that probably wasn't your intention.

On the subject:

The rake you've got is not normal. Most likely not installed correctly, perhaps OE spring perch left in which isn't suppsoed to be there or something like that. The rake alone... I doubt the handling is balanced or the ride is really that supple with the ass up high.

You probably should be aiming to get the ride at about level, with the front some 3-5 mm lower than the rear, measurements done as specified by BMW, get the alignment re-done with the correct height and load, set the middle soft/hard settings of the shocks, and take it from there.

I think in your case maybe the most sensible thing to do would be to take the car to some other shop, who actually know what they are doing, and have it sorted it out for you.

Certianly hope you get it sorted out. Cheers.

PS: I have the installation manual in PDF but I don't know how to get it to you.

[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by x233

See your problem is you can take the car back to the shop as many times as you want but you don't even know what to ask them to do. That wouldn't be a problem with the OEM kit. But it is what it is. If you keep the kit you've got you are probably looking at a learning curve that probably wasn't your intention.

On the subject:

The rake you've got is not normal. Most likely not installed correctly, perhaps OE spring perch left in which isn't suppsoed to be there or something like that. The rake alone... I doubt the handling is balanced or the ride is really that supple with the ass up high.

You probably should be aiming to get the ride at about level, with the front some 3-5 mm lower than the rear, measurements done as specified by BMW, get the alignment re-done with the correct height and load, set the middle soft/hard settings of the shocks, and take it from there.

I think in your case maybe the most sensible thing to do would be to take the car to some other shop, who actually know what they are doing, and have it sorted it out for you.

Certianly hope you get it sorted out. Cheers.

That right there…is a proper post, very helpful!

Funny enough, I have toyed with the idea of taking it to a different shop that specializes in suspension, especially after they stated that the front is the highest it can go. There are forum members w/ same setup and the front does not have the tires tucked in/low rider effect. From your comment, it seems the OEM spring perch isn't supposed to be left in (presumably the B16s come with one).

So yeah, the shop said the right things: they set the F/R height delta according to BMW specs, and balanced (albeit not corner balanced). Heights are now 595 mm front and 610 mm rear (measurement taken from the lower part of the wheel to fender), but I'm wondering what it was stock (didn't provide that).

I didn't think that coilover installation could be that complex for a solid BMW Indy shop where every tech is BMW Master certified (not sure to what level). So…yeah, something is amiss here.

Now, with that said, does anyone in the Dallas - Ft Worth area have a recommended suspension shop? The ride has improved, but I am wondering if there is definitely room for improvement

Cheers

[doughboy]

Have you measure it yourself to be sure?

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

So yeah, the shop said the right things: they set the F/R height delta according to BMW specs, and balanced (albeit not corner balanced). Heights are now 595 mm front and 610 mm rear (measurement taken from the lower part of the wheel to fender), but I'm wondering what it was stock (didn't provide that).

620/620 is stock. You really needed to specify to the shop where you wanted it to be before dropping it off, and exactly where you were measuring it from. I've had many cars and BMW is the only one I've had that measures it the way that they do (but the shop should have known if they are a BMW shop)

Originally Posted by No_curebimmer

I didn't think that coilover installation could be that complex for a solid BMW Indy shop where every tech is BMW Master certified (not sure to what level). So…yeah, something is amiss here.

The installation isn't complex, but setting the coil-over height (and getting it right) is. With the MPS it's pretty much a no-brainer because the rears are 600 all the way down, so they are easily set before installation and then the fronts are dropped accordingly. When you have to move all 4 here and there it can take a lot of time and effort to get it right, only to have it settle after 2 weeks and do it all over again.

And yes, every time the suspension is moved up or down you need to have the alignment checked because an increase in toe will kill your tires post haste.

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

620/620 is stock. You really needed to specify to the shop where you wanted it to be before dropping it off, and exactly where you were measuring it from. I've had many cars and BMW is the only one I've had that measures it the way that they do (but the shop should have known if they are a BMW shop)



The installation isn't complex, but setting the coil-over height (and getting it right) is. With the MPS it's pretty much a no-brainer because the rears are 600 all the way down, so they are easily set before installation and then the fronts are dropped accordingly. When you have to move all 4 here and there it can take a lot of time and effort to get it right, only to have it settle after 2 weeks and do it all over again.

And yes, every time the suspension is moved up or down you need to have the alignment checked because an increase in toe will kill your tires post haste.

On the rear.

On the M2 you have to be doing something drastic before it has a major effect on front toe...

[omasou]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

620/620 is stock.

Is this correct. Before they pulled the TIS I believe it specified 612/615.

As a side note. My M2C was delivered with the MP Coilovers installed the height set at 595 mm/610 mm. They have since settled significantly and I plan to have them raised above the 595 mm/610 mm b/c it's too low for my street and while I'm at it, I'll suck it up and have the car corner balanced.

No_curebimmer the attached PDF is the BMW MP Coilover installation instructions. Your height settings are spot on, see section 3. But you should be able to go higher.

Note: seems the dealer set the rears at 610mm instead of the 600mm specified. Not sure why maybe there was an update?

The image attachment is the alignment settings. Forget where I got this from so take it w/a grain of salt.

The pictures are of my car are w/the MPC installed at delivery and 9 miles on the car.

[No_curebimmer]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Have you measure it yourself to be sure?

Yes I just did, using a rudimentary tape measure.

For traceability and perspective: I measured from the lower part of the rim, straight through the middle/center cap, to edge of the fender. (believe this is the way BMW recommends?)

Front = ~ 23.5" (597 mm)

Rear ~ 24" (610 mm)