12-13-2017, 09:55 PM | #133 |
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Well...guess I'll get a 911T.
At least Porsche knows there's a demand for raw, MT cars. |
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12-14-2017, 09:00 AM | #134 |
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Very short term. it's trick is actually just 0-30. Look at the 30-60 times and a lot of cars are it's match (m2/m3/m4). Once people start to realize that then it's just the INSANE 0-30 that's the entire game. My brother owns a p100d and it is a fun trick, I've driven it. The instant torque at any speed can be shocking to passengers too. But in corners....
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12-14-2017, 01:52 PM | #136 | |
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12-14-2017, 01:52 PM | #137 |
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I've seen both an original Tesla Roadster on track and several I8 as well. I have heard from owners that indeed, it's either switch to petrol for the drive home ( for example in an i8) or plug it in for 2 hours before you head home from the track/twisties.. etc.. A clear negative.. On the plus side, the E-fiil up only costs about $5 vs burning 5-10 gallons of fuel.
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12-15-2017, 07:49 AM | #138 | |
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12-15-2017, 10:28 AM | #139 | |
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I have owned 9 BMWs and I am 45 years old. I was going for the M2 CSL too (1st on the list at my dealer) thinking that BMW was finally figuring out how to get M cars back to light "basic," insane handling M cars, especially for the folks like those enthusiasts and "brand ambassadors" on this website. Nope, let's build another M5 variant . . . a hybrid no less. "We at BMW will make more money doing that . . . " I am now officially out of this game of whomever sells more cars to the world wins. Capitalism is great and I love it as there is no better system IMHO, but stock price and shareholders suck sometimes and those folks are clearly in charge at BMW; a real downer. I know the GTS sales issues had some effect on this decision but when you build a $135,000 M4 to compete with P cars it better be mega and really compete. I love the M4 GTS but the raw performance numbers do not justify the price. I digress. I almost think that not building the M2 CSL now is BMW's official admission that it can't stack up against what will be its obvious competitor - the new P GT4 coming soon! Just depressing - I want BMW making serious M cars that rival the P competition. They have truly given up. |
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12-15-2017, 11:16 AM | #140 | |
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My dad had a 2007 M coupe and we bought that car instead of the 987 CS. that thing was magical and special. Just not the case anymore.
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12-15-2017, 11:16 AM | #141 | ||
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12-15-2017, 11:23 AM | #142 | |
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Quantity over quality these days. That’s just how it is.
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12-15-2017, 01:35 PM | #143 | ||
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Not all dealers and speculators who purchased an M4 GTS managed to sell the cars. Looks like BMW has 'boxed above its weight' with the ambitious M4 GTS price-tag. Brand loyalty has its limits - for that money customers also have a chat with a Porsche dealer. And then there's also the nervous road behavior in the wet that didn't help either promoting the M4 GTS. M4 GTS in EVO Car Of The Year 2016: "I turn the wipers from frisky to frantic, transfer control of the DCT to the paddles and narrow my focus on the crimson flare of brake lights ahead barely penetrating the spray but almost semaphore active. The ease with which the M2 is keeping up - indeed, is all over - the car in front, without asking much from me, is a surprise. I'll reveal what those flashing tail lights belong to in a moment, but the first intriguing insight of the day is starting to form. "A perfect illustration of how big a difference it can make driving a car on domestic roads in Blighty weather is made by the BMW M4 GTS. As you'll see in the final scores, this is a car that widely split opinion. Many of us hadn't driven the car before, but Henry and Dan had both experienced it on smooth and fast Iberian roads that were baked crisp by hot sun. Both came back in love with the car. My first drive in the GTS was along a wet, undulating, twisty, crusty and very challenging B-road. Turning off the traction control would have resulted in disaster and a terribly embarrassing phone call to BMW. The car, so magnificent on dry, smooth roads, was a liability or these ones."M4 GTS and TopGear: "And in the wet?
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12-15-2017, 04:02 PM | #144 |
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That's why I recently dumped the M2 DCT and went for Cayman GT4 its more expensive, and not as practical but it's a car that is so connected with you it's hard to explain. BMW really need to pull their socks up
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12-16-2017, 07:28 AM | #145 |
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And to that point, Porsche has an offering at almost all price points. They are like crack and once you begin, you will not stop the insatiable need to climb one rung higher. I have only just gotten mine, but am already thinking about better variants. Bmw will keep me for the people-mover duty, but not for any "ultimate driving machine". Actually, possibly not even for that reason, we drove few other SUVs recently and wouldn't mind a change there either. Sad state around here.
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12-16-2017, 09:12 AM | #146 |
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Glad you're enjoying the GT4.
I mailed every Porsche dealer in the UK on Thursday evening about the upcoming GT4 and spent most of Friday speaking with dealers to see if they could get me on a list. The news isn't good. Not having a Porsche 'buying history' means they see me as a speculator so I'm highly unlikely to be given an allocation. I did tell them I'd tick pretty much every available option too. I'll have to take it on the chin in 2019 and pay a premium to a speculator and hope they've ordered one in Riviera Blue with CCBs and bucket seats. If BMW don't pull their fingers out more enthusiasts will be doing the same. |
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12-16-2017, 09:38 AM | #147 | |
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2018 M2: BSM, Exec, 6MT (ED on 10/5/17, re-delivery on 11/30/17) My BSM M2 European Delivery Story
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12-16-2017, 04:17 PM | #148 |
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The Porsche 911 and Cayman are designed as a sports car from the ground up. BMW M models are saddled with the limitations of being a sports car that is derived from a luxury coupe/sedan core.
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12-16-2017, 05:49 PM | #149 | |
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Unfortunately, BMW has basically jettisoned that history in the hopes of expanding their customer base. They have obviously succeeded and are now one of the leading car manufacturers in the world, at least on a volume basis. The problem isn't that a BMW isn't a Porsche; it never was and never was intended to be. The problem is that a BMW is no longer a BMW, or an "Ultimate Driving Machine" in very many senses of the word.
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12-16-2017, 06:10 PM | #150 | |
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Truth!
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12-16-2017, 06:20 PM | #151 |
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I own a Porsche, a 2003, 996-911 TT. It's a fabulous car, but I don't really want to be in it for long periods of time since it isn't practical and at some point the novelty wears off. A BMW sports sedan/coupe should be something that's a lot of fun to drive, that is connected to the road, but at the same time is a car you can take to Costco, or running other errands, or transporting a couple of other people somewhere in the normal course of your existence. I can do that to some extent with the Porsche, but I really have to make some serious compromises and design my trips accordingly.
BMW doesn't need to make cars that are fun to drive anymore; they can get by on their reputation as a luxury car maker and compete for that market with the likes of Lexus, and Infinity, and Mercedes, which is coincidentally what they are doing. I also don't need to buy one, it's a free country/world (or most of it).
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12-16-2017, 06:32 PM | #152 |
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12-16-2017, 11:09 PM | #153 | |
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12-16-2017, 11:20 PM | #154 | |
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A regular car seemed like an appliance. A sports car seemed too expensive, too much trouble, and not practical every day. |
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