[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by M2Nebula

The E series X1 is what got me back into BMW after selling my E28 ten years ago. Got it to replace my wife's ride and then that lead me to getting the M2. I really like the small size of the X1 and love driving it as well, sometimes more than the M2 depending on the situation or mood. Hydraulic steering is great. The M2 is still small enough and keeps some ties back to earlier cars, but I am in the same camp....stop maxing out the size! Smaller is better, I would love a 1 series M hatch, RWD or Xdrive would be fine. No CS, CSL, or whatever for me unless the price point is hard to beat, which is highly unlikely, and/or one becomes available down the road out of the blue and I can't resist.

Originally Posted by Pyrat 2

For the price that the CSL would have been at I would not have wanted one IF I could even get one allocated to me. I have no heartburn over this.

However, BMW is on the verge of losing me after 17 years of unending loyalty. I've bought 6 new BMWs in the last 17 years along with 3 used ones. For me I want a smaller fun to drive car. The 3 was my go to car. 2 E36s and 2 E46s. They almost lost me on the E90 because of the size vs the E46 but I bought one. When it came time for an F series M3 I walked. It was just too big for my tastes. The next 3 series is even bigger yet. Not for me. Then the M2 came out and that extended my relationship with BMW. For my wife we have an E series X1. The F series X1 got bigger and went front drive - no more 50/50 weight distribution - may as well buy a CRV. So unless they pull a rabbit out of the hat and reintroduce a rear drive 1 series I'll be out of new BMWs once my current M2 and X1 live their useful life with me which is probably in about 2 years. Anything can happen but most anything coming out in the next two years has test mules running around now. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.

Holy kindred spirits! I'm driven a BMW since 1993.

I currently have an E82 X1 m sport as my daily driver and my 1M is my garage queen/ weekend car/ track car.

I am definitely not into the new model X1. The CRV comment is spot on. It's a perfect car as a step up from a CRV or a RAV4, and all three have gone up in size. No thanks.

I've owned two E30 M3 over a 17 year period. I didn't like the E36 (bigger and heavier ) and the E46 M3 was more of the same. Then the E90 went even bigger! It did have a lot of weight savings and ultimately I realized that the sedan would actually be useful so I started to look for used E90 M3. BMW actually DID pull a rabbit out of a hat with the 1M and I pounced.

The 3/4 series have moved into 5 series mini me with the F80. BMW continues to tout reduction of weight, however it's the size and dimensions are the key. It's not just BMW, heck today's Honda Accord is an absolute boat compared to the 1991 Honda Accord coupe that was my first car.

However , Honda makes a small 4 sedan. So does everyone but BMW it seems , with both 1 and 2 series in coupe only.

HELLO BMW.

Please make a 4 door sedan with rear wheel drive that's something close to E46 sedan or E90 sedan. Call it a 2 gran coupe if you like and make as many variants as you can including M models .. I think you will have a winner !!


Back to current day. I was hoping for an M2 CSL with a 6 speed and will continue to hold out hope for a while , just as i did with the 1M.

I will give a hard look at the new X3. An M sport diesel or perhaps an M40 might work as a replacement for my X1. An X3M might be an option but it will probably be crazy expensive - close enough to remind me that it's not an M2 6MT CSL.. I would pay $75k- 79k for an M2 CSL because I want the performance. Beyond that is Porsche money.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

The only exciting thing coming from BMW and that gets scrapped. Is BMW allergic to fun these days?

That's a good point - it's like they are trying to appeal to everyone in every market segment, which traditionally is not super successful. Think of the struggles that the American big 3 companies had a few years back - lots of choices, but no real focus to speak of.

There's already a German Toyota (VAG/VW), so what's the goal here? Moving away from all of the things that made the company great, and what built up its respected reputation? My dad's E46 in 2000 was a 328, without M sport, and it was easily the best car anyone in the family had ever owned. That car was fun, and it was a far cry from an M...if you get into an entry level 3 series now, there is no hint of that energy or magic. It's just not there. The company's goals have changed, and continuous growth at the expense of brand identity and loyalty is what we are getting.

Oh, they will attract new customers and sell many, many cars. That much is certain. But they won't keep nearly as many people who helped make them what they are (from a customer standpoint)...I didn't even use to look around when it was time for a new car. I just went and got another BMW, because I knew that's what I wanted. Not the case these days.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Oh, they will attract new customers and sell many, many cars. That much is certain. But they won't keep nearly as many people who helped make them what they are (from a customer standpoint)...I didn't even use to look around when it was time for a new car. I just went and got another BMW, because I knew that's what I wanted. Not the case these days.

BMW doesn't really care about retaining the old customers who "helped make them what they are." We BMW-fossils are ancient history to the people running this company.

I believe that BMW's management has taken a long hard look at their business and they are doing exactly what their business plan calls for, which is to increase volume production while increasing profits at least proportionately. They have taken their hard-earned reputation for the "M" division and using the branding for all sorts of cars that have nothing whatever to do with real performance, in the old M-division sort of a way. But the badges bring prestige, and they are spreading them out all over the place. "M" is now the stuff of advertising copy. I don't blame these people, they are running a business and I think they have concluded, probably correctly, that what they are doing is the most profitable approach that they could take now.

Briefly stated, BMW had an epiphany some years back that their old core audience either wasn't profitable enough, or was not going to be very useful to them going forward. We are expendable and we have been relegated to the dust bin of history.

Any desire to go back to the "good old days" is entirely fanciful and will not happen. The current M2 is one of the very last bones that this organization will be throwing in our direction.

[M2Nebula]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Holy kindred spirits! I'm driven a BMW since 1993.

I currently have an E82 X1 m sport as my daily driver and my 1M is my garage queen/ weekend car/ track car.

I am definitely not into the new model X1. The CRV comment is spot on. It's a perfect car as a step up from a CRV or a RAV4, and all three have gone up in size. No thanks.

I've owned two E30 M3 over a 17 year period. I didn't like the E36 (bigger and heavier ) and the E46 M3 was more of the same. Then the E90 went even bigger! It did have a lot of weight savings and ultimately I realized that the sedan would actually be useful so I started to look for used E90 M3. BMW actually DID pull a rabbit out of a hat with the 1M and I pounced.

The 3/4 series have moved into 5 series mini me with the F80. BMW continues to tout reduction of weight, however it's the size and dimensions are the key. It's not just BMW, heck today's Honda Accord is an absolute boat compared to the 1991 Honda Accord coupe that was my first car.

However , Honda makes a small 4 sedan. So does everyone but BMW it seems , with both 1 and 2 series in coupe only.

HELLO BMW.

Please make a 4 door sedan with rear wheel drive that's something close to E46 sedan or E90 sedan. Call it a 2 gran coupe if you like and make as many variants as you can including M models .. I think you will have a winner !!


Back to current day. I was hoping for an M2 CSL with a 6 speed and will continue to hold out hope for a while , just as i did with the 1M.

I will give a hard look at the new X3. An M sport diesel or perhaps an M40 might work as a replacement for my X1. An X3M might be an option but it will probably be crazy expensive - close enough to remind me that it's not an M2 6MT CSL.. I would pay $75k- 79k for an M2 CSL because I want the performance. Beyond that is Porsche money.

Yes indeed, and we just happen to have good taste.

Technically, the 125d 5dr is was re-kindred my spirit for owning another BMW. Wife and I rented one in 2012 while visiting family in Germany. We put nearly 3000 KM on the thing and said to ourselves that if this car comes to the US we will buy one. That didn't happen, so the X1 it was four years later.

So, I am completely with you here....they should take the 1 series 5dr and meld it with the M2 and call it the CSLGC

Image taken in Passau >

[FogCityM3]

Yikes...no M2 CSL. Was probably the only way I would have returned to the brand....now is pretty much zero probability. Disappointed.

[SDPLV]

M5 Hybrid!

[c63er]

Originally Posted by champignon

BMW doesn't really care about retaining the old customers who "helped make them what they are." We BMW-fossils are ancient history to the people running this company.

I believe that BMW's management has taken a long hard look at their business and they are doing exactly what their business plan calls for, which is to increase volume production while increasing profits at least proportionately. They have taken their hard-earned reputation for the "M" division and using the branding for all sorts of cars that have nothing whatever to do with real performance, in the old M-division sort of a way. But the badges bring prestige, and they are spreading them out all over the place. "M" is now the stuff of advertising copy. I don't blame these people, they are running a business and I think they have concluded, probably correctly, that what they are doing is the most profitable approach that they could take now.

Briefly stated, BMW had an epiphany some years back that their old core audience either wasn't profitable enough, or was not going to be very useful to them going forward. We are expendable and we have been relegated to the dust bin of history.

Any desire to go back to the "good old days" is entirely fanciful and will not happen. The current M2 is one of the very last bones that this organization will be throwing in our direction.

You are correct in every way, but do not discount the possibility that bmws decision making is fundamentally flawed.

Mercedes AMG is proving that selling to enthusiasts can be very profitable. So while BMW has chosen to sell cars in Asia and forget "non profitable" enthusiasts, Mercedes has gone a different way and will be reaping rewards for many years to come as they as building up a serious enthusiast core now.

There is some strange culture that has taken over at BMW and it doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. Every enthusiast and talented person has been leaving while soulless decision makers have been put in their place unfortunately.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by gmzanatta

I think M2 Comp = M2 CS and they'll be dropping the Comp name instead.

I think something has changed internally...

Originally Posted by Gatte

There will be no M2 CSL.

There is still hope for the M2 CS after the M2 Competition. A subset of these parts were booked out of inventory a little over a week ago.

The entire list is pretty large. I am only posting a subset which have M2 CS logo in them.

Attachment 1734485

After reading all in the posts here, it seems like they moved from CSL to CS, dropping the L. So we are going to see a M2 which is more potent than the M2 Competition, which is called the M2 CS which also includes all those parts shown on the attachment and it is coming end of 2019/early 2020.

I would have preferred them calling the M2 Competition -> the M2 CS and come up with a CSL version instead. Now I have to buy a limited M2 CS in 2019 and start removing the seats and adding a cage and water cooling myself...

All clear, CSL is dead, long life the M2 CS. M2 Competition is on its way and is close to being ready. Now we only need to wait until the release somewhere March/April next year, and we have enough to discuss until we see the CS test mules driving around.

Now that I am thinking... I can see a reason why Frank removed the CSL from the M2. What if, he wants the CSL brand to drop on the new M3/M4 first instead of an outgoing model like the M2. Marketing wise that sounds a lot smarter from a BMW M perspective. Especially with all those MiX models arriving.

I think he wants the world in 2019/2020 to emphasize on the new M3/M4 and not have some lightweight M2 steal the show away from the M3/M4 which will definitely be "less M so to speak". I can already see the world shouting that the M2 CSL is the bomb and the new M4 is "not as good". He will use the return of the CSL brand on the new M3/M4 and not on an outgoing M2. We solved the puzzle! Clear marketing move!

What does that mean for the car? Just convert the M3 CS/M4 CS set up to the M2 Competition... Rear seats still included, no cage, alcantara steering wheel standard, more power, carbon ceramics, different carbon lip on the back, standard Competition exhaust, new door cards, all the new options (seats, seatbelts, wheels and parking sensors front) as standard, and that is about it. Just a full optioned M2 Competition with a bit more (like new wheels and sticky rubber). Done, there is the M2 CS. Limited like the M3 CS or M4 CS and not as limited as a M2 CSL.

Originally Posted by Bt12

C’mon guys, that Tesla roadster is bad azz.... sub $250k with 0-60 times and quarter mile that beats essentially every supercar out there that cost multiples more. Oh and it looks good and can be a daily driver.

I’ll probably buy the Porsche mission E or some BMW variant at some point once I get over not having a manual transmission.

Tesla bad azz? That company should first start making decent cars, and make sure they do not loose 8K dollars per minute right now! The moment Porsche, BMW and other start producing EVs they will be faster or as fast, but a lot more reliable, not overheat and at least available to arrive in your garage... Nice that Roadster thing, but I prefer buying a car from a brand that I do not have to go back to the dealer every freaking week because something is not working anymore

MR

[Chako]

Originally Posted by MR.

What does that mean for the car? Just convert the M3 CS/M4 CS set up to the M2 Competition... Rear seats still included, no cage, alcantara steering wheel standard, more power, carbon ceramics, different carbon lip on the back, standard Competition exhaust, new door cards, all the new options (seats, seatbelts, wheels and parking sensors front) as standard, and that is about it. Just a full optioned M2 Competition with a bit more (like new wheels and sticky rubber). Done, there is the M2 CS. Limited like the M3 CS or M4 CS and not as limited as a M2 CSL.

If this is the case, do you see the M2 'CS' being DCT only, similar to M3/M4 CS?

[akkando]

Do we think that the M2 Comp will be made for just one model year like the LCI and then the following year it will just be the limited run of CS cars and that's it, it's over? Or will they make the M2 Comp car for both MY19 and MY20?

[MR.]

Originally Posted by Chako

If this is the case, do you see the M2 'CS' being DCT only, similar to M3/M4 CS?

If you look at M3/M4 CS, then yes, but Frank told me that he loved and preferred the M2 with a manual box. So you would think he would open up that option, but I can see higher management saying only DCT.

Originally Posted by akkando

Do we think that the M2 Comp will be made for just one model year like the LCI and then the following year it will just be the limited run of CS cars and that's it, it's over? Or will they make the M2 Comp car for both MY19 and MY20?

Nope, I think it will be two full years and the CS wil be built next to it, like the M3/M4 CS is built.

MR

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by akkando

Do we think that the M2 Comp will be made for just one model year like the LCI and then the following year it will just be the limited run of CS cars and that's it, it's over? Or will they make the M2 Comp car for both MY19 and MY20?

M2 Competition: all the way till 2020 end of production.

[ORIGIN M.]

While I am understanding most of what you're saying... I still find it hard to have a man-crush on any dude

Originally Posted by Die ///M Rakete

If any of you are surprised at this I have one word for you:

TESLA

Elon really lit a fire under everyone's ass. The term "Game Changer" gets thrown about quite a bit but it is an understatement in Musk's case. He's doing it to the space launch industry and he's doing it to the automotive industry as well. Who's next?!

Hard not to man crush on the dude

[CSL335i]

Originally Posted by Gatte

The entire list is pretty large. I am only posting a subset which have M2 CS logo in them.

Attachment 1734485

Do i see right, that the new M2 CS or whatever BMW calls it will have front PDC
sensors?

[MR.]

Originally Posted by CSL335i

Do i see right, that the new M2 CS or whatever BMW calls it will have front PDC
sensors?

yup Competion as well

[V-Eight]

in part. I agree with BMW. The current 2 series has already nearly five years, I thinks that it's not worth to invest again in a model that has only three (at maximum) years to do...Maybe it's better to invest on the new model directly.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by V-Eight

in part. I agree with BMW. The current 2 series has already nearly five years, I thinks that it's not worth to invest again in a model that has only three (at maximum) years to do...Maybe it's better to invest on the new model directly.

It's thinking like this that one must fight thorough if you are sure about what you want.



Seven years ago.. the 1 series cycle was looking to be towards the end .. the LCI had Already happened , the N54 was getting long in the tooth... and what happened ??

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by CSL335i

Do i see right, that the new M2 CS or whatever BMW calls it will have front PDC
sensors?

See for example this M2 Competition test mule produced on Nov 14, 2017: it got option 508 (PDC front & rear) instead of option 507 (PDC rear).

(source: public BMW VIN decoder + thread).

[mWHO]

Well this M2 CS of spring shall be the determining factor on my loyalty to the (new) Bavarians, depending on price and features of this new car.

I like my F87, but don't love it like my past E92. I was for a while convinced 'maybe I'm just not that into cars' and that the joy I've felt in earlier years was the honeymoon, new appeal of it all. Although disputed, the overall tone on this car is "its special you better like it"; I thought it must be just a me problem. I want to like it. I want to make it my wife. I want to no one but death to do us part. But the M2 to me now is the ghost of that one girlfriend that "if only things changed a bit" she would 'be the one'. Now spending extensive time, over the past two cold months in my (albeit heavily modified) STi, has returned my enthusiasm and joy for cars. At close to 3000lbs, theres just something so fulfilling to the sensorys in its nimble, analog feel. Alas, but this is a bimmer form, and my notion that a Japanese car is more fun to drive than a German is bound to be lost in my vape smoke. Probably time to rip some more primo cotton anyways. I digress, so I've removed my blinders and I've started looking what the other guys have to offer.

Ford is the most tempting (on paper) with their GT350, but also home to the worst build quality. Every in depth video I've watched shows people ecstatic over it. The upcoming GT500 should be incredible too.

The GM ZL1 Camaro and Grandsport have the build quality and street usable torque over the Ford, but GM has (or is) the same designers as Michael Bay. What ever happened to the classy timeless design of the C2?

Porsche 718s are simply breath taking in person, however with a built Subaru STi as my other car, I don't care for another H4. 911 is starting to sail to new waters in price.

Jag XE seems to be a better drivers car than the 335i now, and the upcoming 5.0 SVR version could be monstrous. But I've always found British cars sit weird with me- I want to like them, but I just don't, at least not as much as the Germans. Plus, Jag is still playing catch up from the 2000s.

Alfa Romeo Giulia. Wow. After watching savagegeese' review on it, this is the first car since our dear M2 was unveiled that I've been thoroughly excited for. The epitome of Italian passion and beauty. The interior doesn't look much more than the M2s for 87k CAD though, and I'm sure glad I'm rarely out of the immediate radius of an FCA dealer.

And lastly our arch rivals- if I'm gonna get a plush, numb cruiser that is not small and nimble, get it from the guys who do that best; the C63s coupe seems to be one a hell of a car.

Ultimately the thing to do would be get a low mileage E46 or E92, however the worry of owning a ticking time bomb may not be worth the loss of sleep.

It pains me that its like this, as a loyal person, however in our Capitalist world. I'm likely to be voting for a new candidate next go around.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by mWHO

Well this M2 CS of spring shall be the determining factor on my loyalty to the (new) Bavarians, depending on price and features of this new car.

I like my F87, but don't love it like my past E92. I was for a while convinced 'maybe I'm just not that into cars' and that the joy I've felt in earlier years was the honeymoon, new appeal of it all. Although disputed, the overall tone on this car is "its special you better like it"; I thought it must be just a me problem. I want to like it. I want to make it my wife. I want to no one but death to do us part. But the M2 to me now is the ghost of that one girlfriend that "if only things changed a bit" she would 'be the one'. Now spending extensive time, over the past two cold months in my (albeit heavily modified) STi, has returned my enthusiasm and joy for cars. At close to 3000lbs, theres just something so fulfilling to the sensorys in its nimble, analog feel. Alas, but this is a bimmer form, and my notion that a Japanese car is more fun to drive than a German is bound to be lost in my vape smoke. Probably time to rip some more primo cotton anyways. I digress, so I've removed my blinders and I've started looking what the other guys have to offer.

Ford is the most tempting (on paper) with their GT350, but also home to the worst build quality. Every in depth video I've watched shows people ecstatic over it. The upcoming GT500 should be incredible too.

The GM ZL1 Camaro and Grandsport have the build quality and street usable torque over the Ford, but GM has (or is) the same designers as Michael Bay. What ever happened to the classy timeless design of the C2?

Porsche 718s are simply breath taking in person, however with a built Subaru STi as my other car, I don't care for another H4. 911 is starting to sail to new waters in price.

Jag XE seems to be a better drivers car than the 335i now, and the upcoming 5.0 SVR version could be monstrous. But I've always found British cars sit weird with me- I want to like them, but I just don't, at least not as much as the Germans. Plus, Jag is still playing catch up from the 2000s.

Alfa Romeo Giulia. Wow. After watching savagegeese' review on it, this is the first car since our dear M2 was unveiled that I've been thoroughly excited for. The epitome of Italian passion and beauty. The interior doesn't look much more than the M2s for 87k CAD though, and I'm sure glad I'm rarely out of the immediate radius of an FCA dealer.

And lastly our arch rivals- if I'm gonna get a plush, numb cruiser that is not small and nimble, get it from the guys who do that best; the C63s coupe seems to be one a hell of a car.

Ultimately the thing to do would be get a low mileage E46 or E92, however the worry of owning a ticking time bomb may not be worth the loss of sleep.

It pains me that its like this, as a loyal person, however in our Capitalist world. I'm likely to be voting for a new candidate next go around.

What about an older Cayman or Carrera? New enough to be comfortable but old enough to not be turbo? I don't think they're ticking time bombs the way the e46 or e92 might be. They're all pretty good drivers cars no matter which one you decide on.

[mWHO]

Originally Posted by akkando

What about an older Cayman or Carrera? New enough to be comfortable but old enough to not be turbo? I don't think they're ticking time bombs the way the e46 or e92 might be. They're all pretty good drivers cars no matter which one you decide on.

Used Porsches (911 and Cayman) retain their value stupidly in Canada. Enough to say 'should I spend X amount more to get a brand new one'. With Cayman models edging the 100000km mark asking still in the 40s. And stuff like within 1000km of me there is as many GT4s (with a hefty asking price) as regular used examples, 911Rs going for stupid money, etc. All this is adding to an ever growing chip on my shoulder against Porsche. I've never driven one, however I don't want to as they say believe the hype.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Holy kindred spirits! I'm driven a BMW since 1993.

I currently have an E82 X1 m sport as my daily driver and my 1M is my garage queen/ weekend car/ track car.

I am definitely not into the new model X1. The CRV comment is spot on. It's a perfect car as a step up from a CRV or a RAV4, and all three have gone up in size. No thanks.

I've owned two E30 M3 over a 17 year period. I didn't like the E36 (bigger and heavier ) and the E46 M3 was more of the same. Then the E90 went even bigger! It did have a lot of weight savings and ultimately I realized that the sedan would actually be useful so I started to look for used E90 M3. BMW actually DID pull a rabbit out of a hat with the 1M and I pounced.

The 3/4 series have moved into 5 series mini me with the F80. BMW continues to tout reduction of weight, however it's the size and dimensions are the key. It's not just BMW, heck today's Honda Accord is an absolute boat compared to the 1991 Honda Accord coupe that was my first car.

However , Honda makes a small 4 sedan. So does everyone but BMW it seems , with both 1 and 2 series in coupe only.

HELLO BMW.

Please make a 4 door sedan with rear wheel drive that's something close to E46 sedan or E90 sedan. Call it a 2 gran coupe if you like and make as many variants as you can including M models .. I think you will have a winner !!


Back to current day. I was hoping for an M2 CSL with a 6 speed and will continue to hold out hope for a while , just as i did with the 1M.

I will give a hard look at the new X3. An M sport diesel or perhaps an M40 might work as a replacement for my X1. An X3M might be an option but it will probably be crazy expensive - close enough to remind me that it's not an M2 6MT CSL.. I would pay $75k- 79k for an M2 CSL because I want the performance. Beyond that is Porsche money.

I believe BMW is coming out with a 2 series gran coupe.