[champignon]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

The comment about supply finally catching up to demand is Not true at all.

If they had produced more earlier they would have sold more. BMW could have sold 2-4 x as many vehicles potentially , had they had the production capacity.

Consider TESLA. If you have 300,000 orders and only make 3000 cars a month then after 3 years you will have sold 36,000 cars. If after 3 years you don't have buyers lined up, doesn't mean there wasn't a market for 300,000 vehicles , the other 264,000 buyers simply moved on because they got tired of waiting , purchased a vehicle immediately because f an immediate need , or other products became available , etc.


BMW didn't produce the M2 in decent quantities and also didn't produce a sedan for a reason, because they instead prefer to sell 3/4 series.

BMW has intentionally not made a 1 series sedan or a 2 series sedan to date as part of their limitation on selling compact vehicles.

Instead they are producing X1 and selling as many as they can.

Whoa, there.

I guess I don't see where we are disagreeing, even though you seem to think we are.

You are stating that BMW would rather make and sell things other than M2s,e.g. they'd rather make and sell gross quantities of the X1 and 3/4 series. That's entirely consistent with what I posted.

Whether BMW could have sold 3X as many M2s a couple of years ago is irrelevant to today. We are not time travelers with the luxury of going backwards, we can only go forwards in time :-)

At present, M2s are starting to accumulate on dealer lots and some people here have posted that they have been offered deals off of MSRP. Those cars on the dealer's lots were not available for sale 2 years ago and can only satisfy demand today, and the supply today, in Dec. of 2017, appears to be meeting or even possibly exceeding demand.

Will that be true in January or February of 2018? I have no clue. The economy is seldom static, demographics change over time, as do priorities.

The people that wanted to buy an M2 two years ago, and couldn't, may have ended up buying a more expensive house, and now that they have a kid on the way, no longer have interest in an M2, for just one possible example.

[Potatohead-M2]

Originally Posted by tke743

Rereading my post I can see what I did there. It was intended to be lighter in tone then it came out.

The RS3 is fun. Brake in a straight line, trail brake to keep the weight on the nose during turn-in, set the steering angle and then power through. Classic Audi, not Haldex Audi (aka understeer, followed by understeer and repeat). Note: If you lift after adding power it steps out.

FYI, the RS3 is not a car for people over 6 feet tall. I'm barely 6 feet tall (longer torso) and I really don't fit. I can't wear a baseball cap without the button on top hitting.

I'm the same actually, 6' and mostly torso. I have about 1/4" of room, I couldn't wear a hat either but I rarely do. A sunroof delete option would have been nice. I'm hoping the seat will break in a bit after a few months, lol. I did find the seat is far better and it has more shoulder and knee room than the M2 so there are plusses to both cars there.

[tke743]

Originally Posted by Potatohead-M2

I'm the same actually, 6' and mostly torso. I have about 1/4" of room, I couldn't wear a hat either but I rarely do. A sunroof delete option would have been nice. I'm hoping the seat will break in a bit after a few months, lol. I did find the seat is far better and it has more shoulder and knee room than the M2 so there are plusses to both cars there.

I agree that I like the seats in the RS3, but the M3 seats (and hopefully in the M2 Comp) are better the the RS3's. This headroom issue is so bad I actually pulled the driver seat to see if there was anything I could do (custom bracket) and it's actually the floor that comes up and causes this. No lower bracket (or direct fitting) will save us there. To wear my helmet I will have to adjust the seat in an unnatural way. Not looking forward to tracking this car while doing the limbo, but I will do it.

[Potatohead-M2]

Originally Posted by tke743

I agree that I like the seats in the RS3, but the M3 seats (and hopefully in the M2 Comp) are better the the RS3's. This headroom issue is so bad I actually pulled the driver seat to see if there was anything I could do (custom bracket) and it's actually the floor that comes up and causes this. No lower bracket (or direct fitting will save us there. To wear my helmet I will have to adjust the seat in an unnatural way. Not looking forward to tracking this car while doing the limbo, but I will do it.

Wow I was going to do the same thing so you saved me the trouble. I sat in a TTRS and an S4 to compare and they were pretty much the same, the TTRS had a touch more headroom but it didn't have a sunroof. The M2 has more headroom but its narrower. I also sat in a new SS 1LE and was basically touching. I'm a bigger guy that likes small cars so this stuff is always a problem. I've been driving a MkVI GTI for seven years and the seats are brutal IMO so getting a comfy seat was/is a high priority. With the helmet you can just tilt your head to the right a bit and stick it in the sunroof hole lol

[tke743]

Originally Posted by Potatohead-M2

Wow I was going to do the same thing so you saved me the trouble. I sat in a TTRS and an S4 to compare and they were pretty much the same, the TTRS had a touch more headroom but it didn't have a sunroof. The M2 has more headroom but its narrower. I also sat in a new SS 1LE and was basically touching. I'm a bigger guy that likes small cars so this stuff is always a problem. I've been driving a MkVI GTI for seven years and the seats are brutal IMO so getting a comfy seat was/is a high priority. With the helmet you can just tilt your head to the right a bit and stick it in the sunroof hole lol

It wouldn't have been the first car I had a custom bracket machined for the stock seat to lower it, but there is absolutely no space. Directly bolting a non-padded race seat would only get you about an inch.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by Potatohead-M2

Wow I was going to do the same thing so you saved me the trouble. I sat in a TTRS and an S4 to compare and they were pretty much the same, the TTRS had a touch more headroom but it didn't have a sunroof. The M2 has more headroom but its narrower. I also sat in a new SS 1LE and was basically touching. I'm a bigger guy that likes small cars so this stuff is always a problem. I've been driving a MkVI GTI for seven years and the seats are brutal IMO so getting a comfy seat was/is a high priority. With the helmet you can just tilt your head to the right a bit and stick it in the sunroof hole lol

Not to get off topic here, but my DD for the last 5 years is a MkVI GTI as well. It was kind of a step back for me when I purchased it coming from nearly two decades of leasing and buying new 3 series/M3's, but it's been a great car. An amazing value, fun, practical and economical. What blew me away was that at $26k it was basically half the cost of my last 335 I had. Clearly they are not the same quality of car, and it is starting to show a bit now after 5 years, because some hings are starting to rattle a bit here and there, whereas my 14 year old M3 (slightly lower miles but stiff track suspension) is still rock solid. That is where the money goes for sure.

What gets me with all these cars, VW, Audi BMW, is that the Audis are just crazy expensive, and the VW seem to be an amazing bargain. At least the GTI is. It is king of strange that they have the prices go in opposite directions, for cars that often share the same platforms.

I'm sure it is justified, as the Audi will hold up a lot better than a VW, as I am noticing myself right now. Never the less, it is a hefty price to pay for that, especially if you only keep cars for 3-5 years.

[bobert]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Not to get off topic here, but my DD for the last 5 years is a MkVI GTI as well. It was kind of a step back for me when I purchased it coming from nearly two decades of leasing and buying new 3 series/M3's, but it's been a great car. An amazing value, fun, practical and economical. What blew me away was that at $26k it was basically half the cost of my last 335 I had. Clearly they are not the same quality of car, and it is starting to show a bit now after 5 years, because some hings are starting to rattle a bit here and there, whereas my 14 year old M3 (slightly lower miles but stiff track suspension) is still rock solid. That is where the money goes for sure.

Interesting history - somewhat similar to mine - bought my 2011 GTI 7 years ago, which was a step back from my 2008 G35 that was totaled. But I loved it so much I sold my truck (rather than GTI) 20 months later to get my 335i. Now the GTI (along with old Miata) was finally joined by the M2 on Thursday - each of them were on the C/D 10Best list at the time I bought them, not that it mattered.

[Potatohead-M2]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Not to get off topic here, but my DD for the last 5 years is a MkVI GTI as well. It was kind of a step back for me when I purchased it coming from nearly two decades of leasing and buying new 3 series/M3's, but it's been a great car. An amazing value, fun, practical and economical. What blew me away was that at $26k it was basically half the cost of my last 335 I had. Clearly they are not the same quality of car, and it is starting to show a bit now after 5 years, because some hings are starting to rattle a bit here and there, whereas my 14 year old M3 (slightly lower miles but stiff track suspension) is still rock solid. That is where the money goes for sure.

What gets me with all these cars, VW, Audi BMW, is that the Audis are just crazy expensive, and the VW seem to be an amazing bargain. At least the GTI is. It is king of strange that they have the prices go in opposite directions, for cars that often share the same platforms.

I'm sure it is justified, as the Audi will hold up a lot better than a VW, as I am noticing myself right now. Never the less, it is a hefty price to pay for that, especially if you only keep cars for 3-5 years.

They're good cars. I've had mine since Nov. 2010 and it has about 74k miles now. It really has been a good car. I kept it totally stock 3.5 years, then went APR stage one, Bilstein B12 kit, OEM LED tails, and have driven it like that for another 3.5 years. Shortly after tuning it I did start to get the throwout bearing howl, only in cold dry weather. I have been waiting for it to fail ever since and it never has. The only other thing I have done other than regular maintenance is the low pressure fuel pump, but I believe that was likely my own fault because I ran it down to nothing basically every tank. There are some rattles depending on temp/humidity, but small potatoes really.

I had a MkV as well so I am/was ready to move into something else, mainly something RWD or at least AWD. The RS3 up here is literally double a GTI. I do feel the S3 is way overpriced, being 10k more than a Golf R. At least with the RS3 you are getting a lot more for your extra money. So the decision was is the RS3 (or an M2) worth another 20k over an R. In the end I decided yes. The head scratcher for me, is why is a TTRS 10k more again? They're obviously trying to align with the 718S but it's a big ask to get another 10k for essentially the same car, same problem as Golf R to S3. If I was going to spend another 10k that opens up a whole new world of 718's, lightly used 911's, M3/M4, C63, etc etc.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by bobert

Interesting history - somewhat similar to mine - bought my 2011 GTI 7 years ago, which was a step back from my 2008 G35 that was totaled. But I loved it so much I sold my truck (rather than GTI) 20 months later to get my 335i. Now the GTI (along with old Miata) was finally joined by the M2 on Thursday - each of them were on the C/D 10Best list at the time I bought them, not that it mattered.

Congrats on the M2! Not surprised you kept the GTI. They really are as good as the reviews suggest.

The main reason I took a "step back", was because I needed to get away from a dual purpose DD/Track car. By only spending 1/2 on a DD I could justify getting an e30 M3 for fun/track, but since sold it and bought a really nice, lowish miles, e46 M3 (again). Out of all the BMW's I owned, the e46 M3 was my favorite and I feel is where BMW peeked.

I always said, I'd only buy another new BMW if they would get back to the size and weight of the e46 M3. The M2 is obviously that car and what they aimed for. Really the only thing that stopped me so far has been timing and mark up due to the limited production.

I since also have gotten over needing a brand new car, which is why I'm happy to buy a slightly used M2, but it obviously needs to be at a discount over a new one, or it just isn't worth it.

Originally Posted by Potatohead-M2

They're good cars. I've had mine since Nov. 2010 and it has about 74k miles now. It really has been a good car. I kept it totally stock 3.5 years, then went APR stage one, Bilstein B12 kit, OEM LED tails, and have driven it like that for another 3.5 years. Shortly after tuning it I did start to get the throwout bearing howl, only in cold dry weather. I have been waiting for it to fail ever since and it never has. The only other thing I have done other than regular maintenance is the low pressure fuel pump, but I believe that was likely my own fault because I ran it down to nothing basically every tank. There are some rattles depending on temp/humidity, but small potatoes really.

I had a MkV as well so I am/was ready to move into something else, mainly something RWD or at least AWD. The RS3 up here is literally ouble a GTI. I do feel the S3 is way overpriced, being 10k more than a Golf R. At least with the RS3 you are getting a lot more for your extra money. So the decision was is the RS3 (or an M2) worth another 20k over an R. In the end I decided yes. The head scratcher for me, is why is a TTRS 10k more again? They're obviously trying to align with the 718S but it's a big ask to get another 10k for essentially the same car, same problem as Golf R to S3. If I was going to spend another 10k that opens up a whole new world of 718's, lightly used 911's, M3/M4, C63, etc etc.

I left mine bone stock as well, but am in the process of doing an 034 tune. I have a friend who works there, so I might as well take advantage of it and make the car a little more special now that I had it 5 years.

I hear you on your reasoning between Golf R, S3, RS3. If money is no object then the RS3 is the one to get, obviously! But being that cost matters, the R is valid option. I actually recently was thinking about trading the GTI in for an R, but then I would probably have to pass on the M2. My ideal stable would be Golf R for a DD, and M2 for fun/track. I can't replace both my cars at the same time, so the question is which route I go?

GTI plus M2 or Golf R plus e46 M3?

[kab_m2]

I'm pretty sure they said at the start that for a car to be considered it has to be new for the year or have had a major update. I think that disqualifies the M2 straight off the bat

Edit: also needs to have been a winner last year which the m2 did. My bad

[Mavus]

2018 M5 C&D review ... maybe just maybe they are listening

"For the better part of 30 years, these sports-sedan prophets have spread the good word through light-footed athleticism, steering feedback, and soulful engines. More recently, though, they have walked away from BMW dogma, the latest versions being more aloof, less feeling speed machines."

"The 2018 BMW M5’s born-again chassis dynamics suggest that the M division is turning back toward its faith in driver engagement. But M is, after all, a subordinate organization of the bigger enterprise, and, as such, the division’s complete redemption is only possible if the larger BMW brand can find the same religion and infuse it into the core products."


https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...t-drive-review

[SliChillax]

Because that list is for new 2018 cars. The RS3 got a facelift and many improvements to its handling characteristics for 2018 that's why it's on the list. M2 didn't get anything new for 2018, they're not gonna put the same cars every year.

[stren]

Originally Posted by SliChillax

Because that list is for new 2018 cars. The RS3 got a facelift and many improvements to its handling characteristics for 2018 that's why it's on the list. M2 didn't get anything new for 2018, they're not gonna put the same cars every year.

Previous winners are eligible and can stay on the list if they're still good enough. There's a reason the 3 series was on there for 20 years in a row before BMW messed up the formula.

It's funny because C&D make such a thing about driver experience and "saving the manuals", and then replace the M2 with the RS3. The RS3 is a better car in many respects, but not in those.

[Potatohead-M2]

Originally Posted by SliChillax

Because that list is for new 2018 cars. The RS3 got a facelift and many improvements to its handling characteristics for 2018 that's why it's on the list. M2 didn't get anything new for 2018, they're not gonna put the same cars every year.

Did you read the article?

[Aloha Joe]

Originally Posted by bobert

Interesting history - somewhat similar to mine - bought my 2011 GTI 7 years ago, which was a step back from my 2008 G35 that was totaled. But I loved it so much I sold my truck (rather than GTI) 20 months later to get my 335i. Now the GTI (along with old Miata) was finally joined by the M2 on Thursday - each of them were on the C/D 10Best list at the time I bought them, not that it mattered.

Good taste in cars I had a 04 G35C, picked up a 11 GTI which the wife now drives and loves it, got the 13 370Z (test drove a Miata but preferred the Z) to replace the G35C and now a M2.

But back on topic, the fact that the M2 is not on the top 10 list for 2018 doesn't bother me. It was on the that list for 2017 and rightfully so. Just because it's not on the latest list, does that mean my 17 M2 became worse of a car in one year? Of course not, it just means the competition has stepped up their game and in the bigger picture, we'll all benefit. Forgive me if I'm not a BMW guy, but I'm neither a Chevy, Ford, Nissan, etc, guy either. I'm a guy who enjoys cars, and when I'm ready to swap out one of my cars for the next one. I'll choose the one that fills my needs, budget and emotions the best, regardless of manufacturer.

[SliChillax]

Originally Posted by Potatohead-M2

Did you read the article?

No, because there was no M2 on the list.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by SliChillax

Because that list is for new 2018 cars. The RS3 got a facelift and many improvements to its handling characteristics for 2018 that's why it's on the list. M2 didn't get anything new for 2018, they're not gonna put the same cars every year.

People on this board said the LED lights on the LCI model transformed the car!

[boostm3]

Upon reading the issue this morning, I get the sense that there's something 'political' afoot. Like maybe BMW has snubbed Car and Driver one too many times regarding timely requests for driving samples or something like that. There is no way BMW should have been so summarily shut out of entrants making it to week 2 in that competition, or to explain how negative the Car and Driver hating on BMW has become. To quote,

'the M240i and M2 drop off this year's list. Both are fine cars and endlessly amusing companions, but they also feel old and somewhat strained, as though they are the end of an era for BMW'... Say WHAT?

[seetohey]

Originally Posted by Aloha Joe

Good taste in cars I had a 04 G35C, picked up a 11 GTI which the wife now drives and loves it, got the 13 370Z (test drove a Miata but preferred the Z) to replace the G35C and now a M2.

But back on topic, the fact that the M2 is not on the top 10 list for 2018 doesn't bother me. It was on the that list for 2017 and rightfully so. Just because it's not on the latest list, does that mean my 17 M2 became worse of a car in one year? Of course not, it just means the competition has stepped up their game and in the bigger picture, we'll all benefit. Forgive me if I'm not a BMW guy, but I'm neither a Chevy, Ford, Nissan, etc, guy either. I'm a guy who enjoys cars, and when I'm ready to swap out one of my cars for the next one. I'll choose the one that fills my needs, budget and emotions the best, regardless of manufacturer.

Good taste in cars indeed! I've previously had a 370Z, E46 M3, and RX-7. Good to know there are just guys who enjoys cars here and not brand snobs.

[velociti]

Originally Posted by seetohey

Good taste in cars indeed! I've previously had a 370Z, E46 M3, and RX-7. Good to know there are just guys who enjoys cars here and not brand snobs.

Amen. I had an RX-8, E46 M3, 135i (current), and am pining for an M2. If only Mazda would release a modern turbo rotary...no shot. Oh, well.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Upon reading the issue this morning, I get the sense that there's something 'political' afoot. Like maybe BMW has snubbed Car and Driver one too many times regarding timely requests for driving samples or something like that. There is no way BMW should have been so summarily shut out of entrants making it to week 2 in that competition, or to explain how negative the Car and Driver hating on BMW has become. To quote,

'the M240i and M2 drop off this year's list. Both are fine cars and endlessly amusing companions, but they also feel old and somewhat strained, as though they are the end of an era for BMW'... Say WHAT?

I wouldn't doubt that there is an element of resentment playing in to the judging. BMW was C&D's darling for a long time, but somewhere around the time Chris Bangles cars came out they sifted to liking Audi's a lot more. I can't completely blame C&D, because BMW has lost its edge for sure, but in the case of the M2 seemed to have found it again, and that's where I agree, that something else might be playing in to the equation.

In the end it's just on Magazine's opinion and not as relevant as it used to be. Seems like a lot of consumers pay more attention to car shows like Top Gear or you tube reviewers, so who cares what C&D think. I honestly don't read those magazines as eagerly anymore, like I used to. Probably more for bragging rights to have your car win a comparison test, than effecting consumers purchasing decision.

[boostm3]

The M2/M240i cars were among last year's 10 best.. Now, not even a mention... Im thinking payola has got something to do with it. Certainly, not the prowess of the M2 which stacks up well in almost every review against the likes of all competitors including those that cost 10k more.