[nachob]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Agreed. It will go down favorably in history. Some of the "progress" can't be changed, because of regulations. Manufactures are forced to do certain things to meet the fleet MPG and what not, I get that. My gripe was always that BMW should at least build one car that was still a pure drivers car, like Porsche does whit the GT3. Many have argued that it wasn't feasible, because it would have to be a limited production car, and not worth it. I think those arguments have been proven wrong, since BMW has limited the production of the M2, despite it being a turbo engine and meeting all the new standards.

If Porsche can do it, then why couldn't BMW?

Amen!!!

[champignon]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Agreed. It will go down favorably in history. Some of the "progress" can't be changed, because of regulations. Manufactures are forced to do certain things to meet the fleet MPG and what not, I get that. My gripe was always that BMW should at least build one car that was still a pure drivers car, like Porsche does whit the GT3. Many have argued that it wasn't feasible, because it would have to be a limited production car, and not worth it. I think those arguments have been proven wrong, since BMW has limited the production of the M2, despite it being a turbo engine and meeting all the new standards.

If Porsche can do it, then why couldn't BMW?

To the extent that BMW has "limited the production" of the M2, it is only because they think the market for such a car is small, and that they can use the assembly line space for producing other cars that are either more profitable or that can be sold more easily. The M2 is a niche vehicle, even if it costs 1/2 as much as a 911.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by champignon

To the extent that BMW has "limited the production" of the M2, it is only because they think the market for such a car is small, and that they can use the assembly line space for producing other cars that are either more profitable or that can be sold more easily. The M2 is a niche vehicle, even if it costs 1/2 as much as a 911.

I guess if supply/demand has been met after 2-3 years of limited production, then they have a point.

Either way, IMHO producing/offering cars like the M2 is beyond just profitability of said car. If a mainstream car is more profitable, that is one thing, but which car is setting the image for the brand? Just look at what the original M3 did for BMW? Just imagine they never build it because they thought it wasn't profitable, which is wasn't. You got to write some of that off as marketing, just like racing.

[M2Nebula]

Originally Posted by nachob

I love my 1M but just yesterday, I wanted to check oil level and have to sit there for 5 minutes waiting for the stupid thing to tell me what the level was and it never did. There is no dipstick so I still down't know what my oil level is. That is plain stupid. Not defensible. An expensive performance machine that is to be driven hard needs to have those things.

When you have to take a vacation day from work to check your oil that's when I say things have gone a little too far.

The M2 has to be running for 30 minutes, then parked on level ground, and then it takes another 5 minutes, while the engine speed raises 300 rpm, before you get a reading, which I wish I knew the accuracy of ?!!!!

Why can't I just pull out a dipstick to see and taste the oil?

TOTAL F¥€K'N ABSURDITY!!!!

I feel much better now

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by M2Nebula

When you have to take a vacation day from work to check your oil that's when I say things have gone a little too far.

The M2 has to be running for 30 minutes, then parked on level ground, and then it takes another 5 minutes, while the engine speed raises 300 rpm, before you get a reading, which I wish I knew the accuracy of ?!!!!

Why can't I just pull out a dipstick to see and taste the oil?

TOTAL F¥€K'N ABSURDITY!!!!

I feel much better now

Are you kidding me? It would be faster to put it on the lift, drain the oil in to a measuring cup and pouring it back in.

[M2Nebula]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Are you kidding me? It would be faster to put it on the lift, drain the oil in to a measuring cup and pouring it back in.

Not in the least, that is the procedure. And while we are on the subject, it is pitiful to me that today a Japanese car manual specifications are more informative than BMW's. How hard is it to list the actual oil volume capacity, or other important specs for that matter. Why you ask? They don't want you touching your own car. Talk about a total disconnect, especially on a what is supposed to be an enthusiast's car. The more sheep the better I guess....

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by norMcal

I guess if supply/demand has been met after 2-3 years of limited production, then they have a point.

Either way, IMHO producing/offering cars like the M2 is beyond just profitability of said car. If a mainstream car is more profitable, that is one thing, but which car is setting the image for the brand? Just look at what the original M3 did for BMW? Just imagine they never build it because they thought it wasn't profitable, which is wasn't. You got to write some of that off as marketing, just like racing.

The comment about supply finally catching up to demand is Not true at all.

If they had produced more earlier they would have sold more. BMW could have sold 2-4 x as many vehicles potentially , had they had the production capacity.

Consider TESLA. If you have 300,000 orders and only make 3000 cars a month then after 3 years you will have sold 36,000 cars. If after 3 years you don't have buyers lined up, doesn't mean there wasn't a market for 300,000 vehicles , the other 264,000 buyers simply moved on because they got tired of waiting , purchased a vehicle immediately because f an immediate need , or other products became available , etc.


BMW didn't produce the M2 in decent quantities and also didn't produce a sedan for a reason, because they instead prefer to sell 3/4 series.

BMW has intentionally not made a 1 series sedan or a 2 series sedan to date as part of their limitation on selling compact vehicles.

Instead they are producing X1 and selling as many as they can.

[Potatohead-M2]

Originally Posted by M2Nebula

When you have to take a vacation day from work to check your oil that's when I say things have gone a little too far.

The M2 has to be running for 30 minutes, then parked on level ground, and then it takes another 5 minutes, while the engine speed raises 300 rpm, before you get a reading, which I wish I knew the accuracy of ?!!!!

Why can't I just pull out a dipstick to see and taste the oil?

TOTAL F¥€K'N ABSURDITY!!!!

I feel much better now

lol

You can't even change the battery without special procedures

[ORIGIN M.]

Takes coding yo

Originally Posted by Potatohead-M2

lol

You can't even change the battery without special procedures

[tke743]

Originally Posted by Bazgab

Never driven one but I assume it drives very similarly to the Golf R and S3 but with the much nicer motor and slightly better drivetrain. My Golf R was very quick when modded but was the most soulless car I have ever owned. Kind of turned me off of "AWD" VW's and Audi's. I know the Quattro is supposed to be more lively than the standard Haldex in the R/S3 but I would still prefer a true AWD drivetrain.

Anyway, the M2 is leagues ahead of the Golf R I owned as far as being a driver's car. I can't see the RS3 being better in that respect. The Audi does sound very nice and has a nice interior, I will give it that.

I own a new RS3 (while waiting on the M2 Comp) and it drives very differently than the Golf R/S3. This of course assumes that the Dynamic Control is in the Dynamic setting. In comfort it's a Golf R/S3. I'm sure most drivers would be much faster on track with the RS3 then the M2, she is quick.

This said, I can't wait to get back to RWD.

[Potatohead-M2]

Originally Posted by tke743

I'm sure most drivers would be much faster on track with the RS3 then the M2, she is quick.

That's preposterous. It would understeer into a tree as soon as it even looked at a corner!!

[M2Nebula]

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by M2Nebula

Not in the least, that is the procedure. And while we are on the subject, it is pitiful to me that today a Japanese car manual specifications are more informative than BMW's. How hard is it to list the actual oil volume capacity, or other important specs for that matter. Why you ask? They don't want you touching your own car. Talk about a total disconnect, especially on a what is supposed to be an enthusiast's car. The more sheep the better I guess....

I had no idea it was THIS bad. Might have to keep my e46 M3 until I can afford a 911.

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

The comment about supply finally catching up to demand is Not true at all.

If they had produced more earlier they would have sold more. BMW could have sold 2-4 x as many vehicles potentially , had they had the production capacity.

Consider TESLA. If you have 300,000 orders and only make 3000 cars a month then after 3 years you will have sold 36,000 cars. If after 3 years you don't have buyers lined up, doesn't mean there wasn't a market for 300,000 vehicles , the other 264,000 buyers simply moved on because they got tired of waiting , purchased a vehicle immediately because f an immediate need , or other products became available , etc.


BMW didn't produce the M2 in decent quantities and also didn't produce a sedan for a reason, because they instead prefer to sell 3/4 series.

BMW has intentionally not made a 1 series sedan or a 2 series sedan to date as part of their limitation on selling compact vehicles.

Instead they are producing X1 and selling as many as they can.

You make a valid point. People do move on. Be that as it may, it means that there is less of reason for BMW not to make a purists car. Even more than I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Originally Posted by Potatohead-M2

That's preposterous. It would understeer into a tree as soon as it even looked at a corner!!

Originally Posted by M2Nebula

You guys crack me up

[M2Nebula]

Originally Posted by norMcal

I had no idea it was THIS bad. Might have to keep my e46 M3 until I can afford a 911.

It ain't THAT bad, the M2 is a fantastic car, but let's get real here. Adding technology for the sake of technology is a diminishing return, except for maybe newer buyers. The old school fans want less and more at the same time. I personally use very little of the connected features.

As far as a printed manual goes, if they take the time, energy, and ink, to print such a thing then why have it overweighted with mostly warnings and bullshit. Add some useful information, like REAL SPECIFICATIONS to those who desire it. Even maybe discuss some of the engineering aspects of the car and have a couple cool engine cut away views....whatever. Just don't hand me a leather pouch of mostly useless info and be done with it.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by M2Nebula

It ain't THAT bad, the M2 is a fantastic car, but let's get real here. Adding technology for the sake of technology is a diminishing return, except for maybe newer buyers. The old school fans want less and more at the same time. I personally use very little of the connected features.

As far as a printed manual goes, if they take the time, energy, and ink, to print such a thing then why have it overweighted with mostly warnings and bullshit. Add some useful information, like REAL SPECIFICATIONS to those who desire it. Even maybe discuss some of the engineering aspects of the car and have a couple cool engine cut away views....whatever. Just don't hand me a leather pouch of mostly useless info and be done with it.

Soon there will be no owner's manual, you will have to download the app using your connected drive..

[M2Nebula]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Soon there will be no owner's manual, you will have to download the app using your connected drive..

That would be acceptable if they had USEFUL info with the app. Not a warning that using a screwdriver for the wrong purpose may lead to a fatal injury.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Are you kidding me? It would be faster to put it on the lift, drain the oil in to a measuring cup and pouring it back in.

One would hope, but can't be certain, that the car would warn you that the oil was low after the level dropped below a certain point.

On the positive side, since most owners probably don't go 15K miles between oil changes, the likelihood that the car will be significantly low is reduced. I say this because the M2 is probably not used as a "high mileage daily driver" by very many owners. As a result, even with the "free maintenance program" from BMW, the oil probably gets changed at half that interval in most cases.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by akkando

Seems like the issue with it is reliability and service.

It’s a Dodge after all lol

[c1pher]

I was actually kind of surprised the Stingray didn’t make it, but the Grand Sport did.

[tke743]

Originally Posted by Potatohead-M2

That's preposterous. It would understeer into a tree as soon as it even looked at a corner!!

I thought that would be the case too, but not so. Yes there's a lot of jiggery pokery happening with software and brakes, but it will corner quite well if you set up the corner correctly. Drive it like an AWD and it holds. Drive it like a RWD and you will get what you deserve.

It's lapping close to the same speeds as an M2 with pro drivers. Remind me again, which is faster in the hands of novices (RWD vs AWD)?

[Potatohead-M2]

Originally Posted by tke743

I thought that would be the case too, but not so. Yes there's a lot of jiggery pokery happening with software and brakes, but it will corner quite well if you set up the corner correctly. Drive it like an AWD and it holds. Drive it like a RWD and you will get what you deserve.

It's lapping close to the same speeds as an M2 with pro drivers. Remind me again, which is faster in the hands of novices (RWD vs AWD)?

I was joking, hence the wink. I actually have an RS3 on order, waiting to see what happens with the M2 Comp. When some more pro reviews of that car start coming out, people are going to be surprised.

[tke743]

Originally Posted by Potatohead-M2

I was joking, hence the wink. I actually have an RS3 on order, waiting to see what happens with the M2 Comp. When some more pro reviews of that car start coming out, people are going to be surprised.

Rereading my post I can see what I did there. It was intended to be lighter in tone then it came out.

The RS3 is fun. Brake in a straight line, trail brake to keep the weight on the nose during turn-in, set the steering angle and then power through. Classic Audi, not Haldex Audi (aka understeer, followed by understeer and repeat). Note: If you lift after adding power it steps out.

FYI, the RS3 is not a car for people over 6 feet tall. I'm barely 6 feet tall (longer torso) and I really don't fit. I can't wear a baseball cap without the button on top hitting.