[No Boost]

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-today-feature

For the first time since forever, a BMW 3 series/2 series didn't make the list. It looks like the RS3 took its spot.

[stren]

RS3 is a good car, not sure how they judge it a better driver's car though.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-today-feature

For the first time since forever, a BMW 3 series/2 series didn't make the list. It looks like the RS3 took its spot.

OUCH

Audi sedan
Merc sedan
Alfa sedan

BMW and Cadillac - OFF the list.

Does the M5 count for 2019...if not... their could be a multiyear hiatus.

I don't see any 2 series further progress taking down the Boxster/Cayman

[Mavus]

time for bmw to wake the fuq up and build drivers machines

[AngryBaby]

If I were to jump ship this generation it would probably be for the Alfa

[akkando]

Originally Posted by AngryBaby

If I were to jump ship this generation it would probably be for the Alfa

Seems like the issue with it is reliability and service.

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

time for bmw to wake the fuq up and build drivers machines

This particular magazine gushed all over the M2 last year, specifically pointing out excellent driving dynamics and involvement. I guess an awd, automatic, straight line rocket was their better pick.

[AngryBaby]

Originally Posted by akkando

Seems like the issue with it is reliability and service.

Yeah other than the lack of a manual, the possibly questionable reliability is the issue. Otherwise looks, sounds and drives great. Think I'd take it over an M3 and sure as heck over an RS3...

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

time for bmw to wake the fuq up and build drivers machines

Amen! CD is the most driver focused of all the car magazines and pretty much I fit with their thinking. What I appreciate about your comment is that bunch of BMW guys just say CD is anti BMW or they are just ludites instead of saying like you, what is BMW doing wrong. A lot of BMW apologists say that CD is anti BMW, but they had a 3 series for over 20 years consecutively! What has happened with BMW is that they tilt away from driver focus to tech and other things. Their steering was usually one of the most communicative, now it is getting better but no longer a leader. They put a giant display on top of the dash in line of site. They drop the temp gauge for glowing display or econometer or whatever they do. Their instruments which used to be clear and effective get trendy, blingy and hard to see. Their interior lighting in E46 was all business good-for-night-vision red. Now it's a Christmas tree. I could go on all night, but the point is that the sum of all of these tiny pecadillos add up to where really BMW is not really trying to build the ultimate driving machine anymore. They have realized that guys CD and their fans is a small shrinking group and the masses don't care as much as long as they sell a ton of cars and they are doing that. So BMW is smart at that. There is no money in building the ultimate driving machine when everyone wants a 5000lb arcade on wheels.

Here are my thoughts on what would've made the M2 on the top 10 list:
Don't argue individual things, what I am saying is that the sum of all of these little slants away from pure driving dynamics add up!

1. No fake sound....period. The car sounds amazing outside, why sully it with fake cabin sound. At least allow to easily turn it off without coding.
2. Put a temp gauge with clear, purposeful white on black instruments....NOTE, the new cluster looks better, just needs a temp gauge
3. Put a button to disable auto blip in all mode. CD guys know how to do it already and don't want it.
4. Offer lighter manual seats in M cloth and Alcantara
5. Improve the steering feedback or put a hydraulic rack just for M cars
6. Make it lighter. It should not have been heavier than outgoing 1 series!
7. Offer no iDrive version or at least put the display lower in the middle like Cayman or GTI. I just bought a MK7 GTI for wife and display is great and doesn't distract like BMWs current top-of-dash offering.
8. Offer a stripper version which is lighter and costs less. CD always care of fun per dollar. The stripper version keeps the "purists" happy and the rest can order BLoaded cars.
9. Put a dipstick and wheel well for a spare tire. CD people like to head off to distant locations and long road trips where a dipstick and spare tire are handy.

These are relatively easy things to do. I can almost guarantee that if BMW
1-8, the M2 would be on the list.

One final thought for you guys to cheer you up....it is still the best drivers car BMW makes currently, so Kudos to you guys for getting one.

Best wishes

[///cbrash]

They are just waiting for the M2 competition to come! I almost bought the Alfa quad, solid car.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by nachob

Amen! CD is the most driver focused of all the car magazines and pretty much I fit with their thinking. What I appreciate about your comment is that bunch of BMW guys just say CD is anti BMW or they are just ludites instead of saying like you, what is BMW doing wrong. A lot of BMW apologists say that CD is anti BMW, but they had a 3 series for over 20 years consecutively! What has happened with BMW is that they tilt away from driver focus to tech and other things. Their steering was usually one of the most communicative, now it is getting better but no longer a leader. They put a giant display on top of the dash in line of site. They drop the temp gauge for glowing display or econometer or whatever they do. Their instruments which used to be clear and effective get trendy, blingy and hard to see. Their interior lighting in E46 was all business good-for-night-vision red. Now it's a Christmas tree. I could go on all night, but the point is that the sum of all of these tiny pecadillos add up to where really BMW is not really trying to build the ultimate driving machine anymore. They have realized that guys CD and their fans is a small shrinking group and the masses don't care as much as long as they sell a ton of cars and they are doing that. So BMW is smart at that. There is no money in building the ultimate driving machine when everyone wants a 5000lb arcade on wheels.

Here are my thoughts on what would've made the M2 on the top 10 list:
Don't argue individual things, what I am saying is that the sum of all of these little slants away from pure driving dynamics add up!

1. No fake sound....period. The car sounds amazing outside, why sully it with fake cabin sound. At least allow to easily turn it off without coding.
2. Put a temp gauge with clear, purposeful white on black instruments....NOTE, the new cluster looks better, just needs a temp gauge
3. Put a button to disable auto blip in all mode. CD guys know how to do it already and don't want it.
4. Offer lighter manual seats in M cloth and Alcantara
5. Improve the steering feedback or put a hydraulic rack just for M cars
6. Make it lighter. It should not have been heavier than outgoing 1 series!
7. Offer no iDrive version or at least put the display lower in the middle like Cayman or GTI. I just bought a MK7 GTI for wife and display is great and doesn't distract like BMWs current top-of-dash offering.
8. Offer a stripper version which is lighter and costs less. CD always care of fun per dollar. The stripper version keeps the "purists" happy and the rest can order BLoaded cars.
9. Put a dipstick and wheel well for a spare tire. CD people like to head off to distant locations and long road trips where a dipstick and spare tire are handy.

These are relatively easy things to do. I can almost guarantee that if BMW
1-8, the M2 would be on the list.

One final thought for you guys to cheer you up....it is still the best drivers car BMW makes currently, so Kudos to you guys for getting one.

Best wishes

Amen!

BMW needs to build 3000 lb 400hp car and let it dominate. Your list is the same as mine. Build the damn machine with driver in the loop not out of it. Their steering was one of the best. They seem to spend more time on Icrap as if everybody will go and buy 100k Teslas tomorrow. M4 GTS was supposed to be a dominator but ended being demolished by competition.

BMW wake the fuq up!

[champignon]

Of course no one goes out and buys the "10 Best" cars every year. An article written on that premise is pretty silly and useless to a consumer who is evaluating cars for purchase. It would be interesting to know how much money each of the major car companies spends every year in advertising with that publication.

That being said, 20 years ago, virtually every car that BMW produced was a "drivers' car." Nowadays? Not so much.

[ORIGIN M.]

I guess BMW didn't pay up this time because C&D is all about getting paid for what they write and whom they reward accordingly.

I only read Euro Car Magazine reviews for the real information.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by nachob

There is no money in building the ultimate driving machine when everyone wants a 5000lb arcade on wheels.

Best quote today

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by champignon

Best quote today

He has a strong point no doubt about it

[doug_999]

Why are we surprised here? Go turn your electric steering BMW out of the driveway and you will understand, we no longer drive the Ultimate Driving Machine.

Its OK - the car is still amazing and probably rolls in (ok, bounces in) at a solid #11, but it is not in the top 10 - in fact, no BMW is there and no BMW belongs there right now.

[Fear-Mongrel]

The Guilia is beautiful, but no way I trust that car's long-term reliability. I'll take a flyer on a $50 order of Chinese food from a questionable-looking strip-mall take out place, but no way I'm taking an $80K flyer on a Chrysler. Or Alfa Romeo. I just have to work too hard for that money.

Kudos to Honda for trying to make the Accord look more exciting, though whether the effort was fruitful is up for debate - the new styling is questionable at best. But sitting in the driver's seat will bring back heartwarming memories of riding a 1970's Bluebird school bus. Yes, that's what the seat bottom feels like. If this is a Top 10 car, you can keep the list.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by champignon

Best quote today

I just want to reiterate that it's cool of you that bought the m2 over the 5000 lb arcade on wheels and that the m2 is the most focused car they make today unless the cs is lighter at a reasonable price. If it's just a 80k car with only 100 units then it won't matter because not attainable. In 2011 CD disqualified the 1M from top 10 because only 739 came to US.

So thumbs up those of you that want a smaller, focused rear drive sports coupe. Despite the odds we still have to vote with our wallets!

[champignon]

Originally Posted by afwares

The Guilia is beautiful, but no way I trust that car's long-term reliability. I'll take a flyer on a $50 order of Chinese food from a questionable-looking strip-mall take out place, but no way I'm taking an $80K flyer on a Chrysler. Or Alfa Romeo. I just have to work too hard for that money.

Kudos to Honda for trying to make the Accord look more exciting, though whether the effort was fruitful is up for debate - the new styling is questionable at best. But sitting in the driver's seat will bring back heartwarming memories of riding a 1970's Bluebird school bus. Yes, that's what the seat bottom feels like. If this is a Top 10 car, you can keep the list.

I'm not a defender of the current class of BMW vehicles, as anyone who has read my posts can attest. Nonetheless, there are some cars on this list that I would not be happy to receive as a cheap rental car the next time I fly out of town.

As to the Guilia, I almost had the opportunity to rent one a year ago on a trip to France. I dropped by the rental station the day before to see if I could get dibs on an interesting car, and they told me one was coming in and I asked if they would hold it for me. Unfortunately, it didn't get returned and I was stuck with a Peugeot or Renault (I forget which). But I would have rented it knowing that a tow truck, paid for by the rental agency, was not far away, if needed.

Italy makes some really fine products, however if you want to get from point A to point B on any sort of schedule, I would suggest the extended warranty.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by nachob

Despite the odds we still have to vote with our wallets!

That's what I did after the dealer "offered" me an over-loaded M2 at MSRP after my test drive 2 weeks ago. Oh, I forgot the offer to sell me any accessories I might want at 1/2 off.

Voting with your feet is way cheaper than voting with your heart!

[ZPrime]

I cut out a bunch of your quote... I'm not sure what you're talking about with the car interior being a "christmas tree" now though. My interior lighting is still red, in a 2018. I can change it to white if I want, but I agree that red (actually, orange) is better.

Originally Posted by nachob

Here are my thoughts on what would've made the M2 on the top 10 list:
Don't argue individual things, what I am saying is that the sum of all of these little slants away from pure driving dynamics add up!

Sorry, I'm going to argue these, because that's what the internet is for.

1. No fake sound....period. The car sounds amazing outside, why sully it with fake cabin sound. At least allow to easily turn it off without coding.

It isn't 100% "fake sound." It is a way for the manufacturer to "tune" the sound without having to necessarily invest more money in silencers in the exhaust tract. Has anybody ever stopped and thought how maybe the ASD is actually a weight saving measure? Think of it like noise cancelling headphones, but with the work being done by the car's speakers. If they didn't have ASD there to cut out some of the "unwanted resonances," they'd have to put in another muffler somewhere, at a weight penalty and possibly performance penalty, in order to hit the sound targets that they are shooting for.

I'm not going to argue that they may also be "adding noise," and I agree that this is kind of silly... but the system is not solely a dumb tone generator, at least if you believe the various interviews with BMW.

No argument that it should be something you can turn off via iDrive though.

2. Put a temp gauge with clear, purposeful white on black instruments....NOTE, the new cluster looks better, just needs a temp gauge

Agreed 100%. The stupid "EfficientDynamics" should be a temp gauge. It's even all digital already anyway, why can't they add this via software update? I leave the other gauge displayed all the time though (from the "board computer"), but it's annoying not being able to see mileage and digital speedo then.

3. Put a button to disable auto blip in all mode. CD guys know how to do it already and don't want it.

Agreed, a button or iDrive option to turn it on or off would be wonderful. That said, I know how to heel toe, but I still really like auto-blip.

4. Offer lighter manual seats in M cloth and Alcantara

As an option, sure, but this is my daily driver and I wanted seat memory because I hate adjusting my seat after a dealership visit or valet. Also, alcantara sucks. It's a horrible static-generator in the winter, and it doesn't hold up well under wear.

5. Improve the steering feedback or put a hydraulic rack just for M cars
6. Make it lighter. It should not have been heavier than outgoing 1 series!

No argument on either of these... but the steering is still worlds better than my TTRS was.

7. Offer no iDrive version or at least put the display lower in the middle like Cayman or GTI. I just bought a MK7 GTI for wife and display is great and doesn't distract like BMWs current top-of-dash offering.

Flip side to this - I'd much rather be glancing slightly down and to the side to see a Nav map or radio info than all the way down at the dash. I don't find iDrive distracting at all, even at night. OTOH, I'm 6'4" so I have zero problem seeing over it...

8. Offer a stripper version which is lighter and costs less. CD always care of fun per dollar. The stripper version keeps the "purists" happy and the rest can order BLoaded cars.
9. Put a dipstick and wheel well for a spare tire. CD people like to head off to distant locations and long road trips where a dipstick and spare tire are handy.

As long as 8 is an option, I'm fine with that concept, and I agree with #9... but a spare tire adds weight, which is exactly why they are being removed from cars today.

[ClothSeats]

Yeah I was very surprised to see that. Well not the Quadrifoglio ofc but the RS3?? Nice engine but I can't imagine the backlash if BMW made that car to replace the 2. Maybe C/D thought there were too many RWD cars on the list.