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      11-27-2017, 05:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I agree. So many people seem to be fine waiting for a car that will outprice its abilities. Personally I won't be able to afford or justify it. With so many good offers right now on the n55 model I am surprised people aren't jumping on it.
I'm sure they will jump on them. Too many are still asking near MSRP for 2016's though. If you do a used car search on cars.com or car-gurus, you will still see that many are asking around MSRP, regardless of model year. It was yesterday when I noticed that there was a new 2018 in the mix for MSRP, when it hit me that the supply must have caught up with demand. I mean the 2018's just came out last month and it is surprising that they would be sitting on the lot. A local dealer wanted to sell me a 2017 at MSRP last month, but it had too many options I didn't want (DCT and M Performance parts) pushing the price well over $60k. I briefly had a situation (hit a deer with my DD) where there was a chance they were going to total my car. But the insurance ended up wanting to have it fixed.

I really can't spent $60k on a 2nd (recreational) vehicle. But if used ones start falling in to the mid $40's, where some 2016's ought to be, things will get a bit more interesting for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er View Post
I do note that an unsold 2018 M2 is in the local BMW showroom (as of last week when I went in for maintenance). We have had a very low volume sold here in Nova Scotia, so to see one sitting in the showroom was quite a surprise. Definitely a sign that supply has caught up with demand.
That is what I am talking about.
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      11-27-2017, 06:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by tke743 View Post
It might be that everyone is waiting on the M2 Competition. My CA told me that the market suddenly dried up once the rumors of S55 equipped M2 started in earnest.
I agree,there are definitely a bunch of people that are waiting for the M2 competition.There are quite a few new M2’s listed on autotrader at dealers in Canada.

I still think that a base M2 competition won’t have a huge price increase over the current M2.Probably no more than 3k over the price of the MY18 M2.
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      11-27-2017, 06:13 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
I still think that a base M2 competition won’t have a huge price increase over the current M2.Probably no more than 3k over the price of the MY18 M2.
I hope I'm wrong, but no way it's only $3k. BMW isn't making much on these cars to begin with, and the S55 has to cost them quite a bit more to manufacture than the N55. Just under $60k sounds like a realistic target for them.
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      11-27-2017, 07:12 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
I agree,there are definitely a bunch of people that are waiting for the M2 competition.There are quite a few new M2’s listed on autotrader at dealers in Canada.

I still think that a base M2 competition won’t have a huge price increase over the current M2.Probably no more than 3k over the price of the MY18 M2.
Keep dreaming.

A modest $3k increase wouldn't justify a CS or Comp label; I think that would just be a '19 or '20 M2. I wouldn't expect base model MSRP to be below $65k, nicely optioned in low $70s.
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      11-27-2017, 07:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
I agree,there are definitely a bunch of people that are waiting for the M2 competition.There are quite a few new M2’s listed on autotrader at dealers in Canada.

I still think that a base M2 competition won’t have a huge price increase over the current M2.Probably no more than 3k over the price of the MY18 M2.
I'm sorry but a CS for less than the optional cost of the MPE is a pretty unrealistic expectation. Time will tell but I would be shocked if it was anything less than $10,000 over the base M2 (in Canada). The S55 alone must cost BMW considerably more to make the the N55.
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      11-27-2017, 07:32 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Wharf Rat View Post
Keep dreaming.

A modest $3k increase wouldn't justify a CS or Comp label; I think that would just be a '19 or '20 M2. I wouldn't expect base model MSRP to be below $65k, nicely optioned in low $70s.
No way it will be that much.The M2 competition is not a CS or M3 with the competition package.It is a brand new model with the current M2 being discontinued.I am basing my opinion on the info that has been posted on the forum.If you look at the VIN decoder info on the mules that have already been produced,you will see that there will still be a base M2 without options,being very similar to the specs of the current M2,except the S55 engine.I don’t think there will be a huge price increase just for the S55 engine.
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      11-28-2017, 09:53 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tke743 View Post
It might be that everyone is waiting on the M2 Competition. My CA told me that the market suddenly dried up once the rumors of S55 equipped M2 started in earnest.
I agree,there are definitely a bunch of people that are waiting for the M2 competition.There are quite a few new M2’s listed on autotrader at dealers in Canada.

I still think that a base M2 competition won’t have a huge price increase over the current M2.Probably no more than 3k over the price of the MY18 M2.
How?? It's the entire running gear from the M3 then, in a more desirable and hyped up package. 3K I don't think so. M4 non comp pricing maybe but even then your discount on M4 zcp will probably make it cheaper.

If people are thinking 3 to 5k increase then I see why they're waiting. Prepare for disappointment however.
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      11-28-2017, 10:00 AM   #30
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They won't cannibalize M4 sales by undercutting it by alot...even the base. A loaded M2 CS will likely be at or near the starting price of a base M4. Loaded being with the one or two minor packages similar to the current M2 in the US.

My prediction:

Base M4: 65.5k
Base M2 CS: 61k

Loaded M2 CS w/ DCT: 67k
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      11-28-2017, 10:24 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
They won't cannibalize M4 sales by undercutting it by alot...even the base. A loaded M2 CS will likely be at or near the starting price of a base M4. Loaded being with the one or two minor packages similar to the current M2 in the US.

My prediction:

Base M4: 65.5k
Base M2 CS: 61k

Loaded M2 CS w/ DCT: 67k
I'm with this as well, but I think they may even put the price right at 60k. We already had the M3 transmission all we're gaining in terms of running gear is the S55. We already have the front and rear suspension, steering, brakes and diff.

They may hammer us on the Brake and seat upgrade though.
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      11-28-2017, 06:54 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
How?? It's the entire running gear from the M3 then, in a more desirable and hyped up package. 3K I don't think so. M4 non comp pricing maybe but even then your discount on M4 zcp will probably make it cheaper.

If people are thinking 3 to 5k increase then I see why they're waiting. Prepare for disappointment however.
The great thing is that we will all find out very soon who is right.
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      11-28-2017, 08:48 PM   #33
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There are two reasons why the price won't increase much more than 5-8%, IMO. One, as stated, they don't want to cannibalise sales of the more profitable models. Two, a lot of the reason the M2 exists in the first place is to allow younger people to buy into the M brand (I fall into this category). I simply don't want to spend another 10k, I'm near my comfort limit already.

Here in Vancouver my local dealer has two new 2017's still in the showroom, and a 7000km 2016 in stock as well. They have another LCI allocation for a stock build as well, set for production in a couple weeks. Ultimately because of all these rumours I didn't put my name on that 2018 build and actually put a deposit down on an RS3, to at least give myself a couple options come spring. I don't suspect finding a "base" M2 will be difficult at that time if I decide to go that route.
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      11-29-2017, 06:08 AM   #34
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In Long Island NY and Queens, 6 brand new 2018s been sitting for months. MSRP 58-61.5K. dealers will give $1500-2000 off. Not enough incentive. All mainly DCT.
Perception is reality and as soon as CS is officially announced, the discount will greater and the 2016-2017 market will fall. Its a waiting game, don't rush. I have to laugh at used dealerships in the tri state NY area that have 2016 with 10-15K miles on speedo asking $56-60K still LMAO....they too have sat for 90 plus days.
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      11-29-2017, 06:18 AM   #35
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Even funnier is a dealer to my south that is asking 10k over sticker.....lol.
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      11-29-2017, 10:14 AM   #36
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Even funnier is a dealer to my south that is asking 10k over sticker.....lol.
LOL! That is so 2016! They really need to be better in tune with the marketplace.
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      11-29-2017, 10:19 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knepsterd View Post
In Long Island NY and Queens, 6 brand new 2018s been sitting for months. MSRP 58-61.5K. dealers will give $1500-2000 off. Not enough incentive. All mainly DCT.
Perception is reality and as soon as CS is officially announced, the discount will greater and the 2016-2017 market will fall. Its a waiting game, don't rush. I have to laugh at used dealerships in the tri state NY area that have 2016 with 10-15K miles on speedo asking $56-60K still LMAO....they too have sat for 90 plus days.
It all hinges on what the M2 Competition comes in at - pricewise. If it is the minimal hike some are hoping for (and likely why there is this big pause in the small M2 market) then I agree. If the M2 Comp comes in at $10K over the 2018 M2 pricing, those deals may disappear and the pricing may go back up to MSRP and lightly used cars coming in close behind MSRP.
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      11-29-2017, 10:24 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knepsterd View Post
In Long Island NY and Queens, 6 brand new 2018s been sitting for months. MSRP 58-61.5K. dealers will give $1500-2000 off. Not enough incentive. All mainly DCT.
Perception is reality and as soon as CS is officially announced, the discount will greater and the 2016-2017 market will fall. Its a waiting game, don't rush. I have to laugh at used dealerships in the tri state NY area that have 2016 with 10-15K miles on speedo asking $56-60K still LMAO....they too have sat for 90 plus days.
When I was looking at used 1Ms for purchase, more than 2.5 years ago, I looked at all the "usual places," like craigslist, ebay, autotrader, etc. I ultimately bought my car off of ebay, and it was shipped from Canada.

Several of the 1Ms that I saw listed for sale back then, are STILL for sale, by the same dealers, and the prices have not been reduced. Most of them were undesirable for one reason or another, such as prior accidents, mediocre physical condition, etc. Still, they remain on the lot with the same dealers for sale and prices have not necessarily budged.

One can speculate why this would be the case; it obviously makes no economic sense. One possible explanation is that the dealers have no intention of selling these cars except for more than they are worth, that the presence of the car on their lots, in their showrooms, is for the purpose of attracting "traffic," so that people can then be sold something else. When viewed like that, the carrying cost of the vehicle is basically a part of their advertising/marketing budget.

Obviously, having multiple, overpriced, 2018 M2s on your lot is pretty stupid from any perspective.
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      11-29-2017, 10:45 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knepsterd View Post
In Long Island NY and Queens, 6 brand new 2018s been sitting for months. MSRP 58-61.5K. dealers will give $1500-2000 off. Not enough incentive. All mainly DCT.
Perception is reality and as soon as CS is officially announced, the discount will greater and the 2016-2017 market will fall. Its a waiting game, don't rush. I have to laugh at used dealerships in the tri state NY area that have 2016 with 10-15K miles on speedo asking $56-60K still LMAO....they too have sat for 90 plus days.
On top of the BRZ effect that is going on, I also believe there are some other factors playing in to it right now. Winter is staring and that always hurts cars sales. The old saying is, when the sun goes down, so do car sales. But even more importantly, there seems to be a saturation of niche cars right now. Like I pointed out in the OP, the GT350 is going through the same thing, and a friend of mine just bought a Corvette Grand Sport for 13k of MSRP. Not too long ago they were going for over asking also.
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      11-29-2017, 11:23 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by norMcal View Post
On top of the BRZ effect that is going on, I also believe there are some other factors playing in to it right now. Winter is staring and that always hurts cars sales. The old saying is, when the sun goes down, so do car sales. But even more importantly, there seems to be a saturation of niche cars right now. Like I pointed out in the OP, the GT350 is going through the same thing, and a friend of mine just bought a Corvette Grand Sport for 13k of MSRP. Not too long ago they were going for over asking also.
I wonder with the M2, GT350, and other niche cars if their wont be a cumulative BRZ effect on niche sports cars in general. Seemingly everyone I know that enjoys these types of cars and has the money to buy one, has purchased one in the past 2 years. Maybe that's just in my small world and there are still 1,000s of people waiting to but sports cars and extra cars, but maybe the whole sports/niche car market is about to cool off?

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Originally Posted by gmzanatta View Post
Still blows me away how worried people are over resale. Buy the car to drive it, not turn a profit.

It'll hold its price well compared others (RS3, CLA45, etc) and once the sticker shock and pudgier weight of the CS sets in, there will still be a place for the OG M2.
I don't look at cars as investments, 99.9% of cars will not appreciate over time. However, I don't want to lose $20k in resale after 1-2 years, that's why I am not a new car buyer. M2 owners have benefited from near zero depreciation over the past two years, but at some point, something has to give and prices will drop. I would buy an M2 if I thought I could drive it for 2 years (typically my fun cars don't last longer than that) and resale would only drop $5k, but if its $15-20k, I'll spend my money elsewhere. Nothing is a given, but I (and others) like to be well educated on pricing in order to make the best decisions as possible.

I understand not all care about this stuff like I do, that's fine... We all enjoy different aspects of shopping for and owning cars.
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      11-29-2017, 11:52 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
How?? It's the entire running gear from the M3 then, in a more desirable and hyped up package. 3K I don't think so. M4 non comp pricing maybe but even then your discount on M4 zcp will probably make it cheaper.

If people are thinking 3 to 5k increase then I see why they're waiting. Prepare for disappointment however.
The great thing is that we will all find out very soon who is right.
I'm betting " very soon " is at least 30 days away. Unless you have other intel ?
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      11-29-2017, 11:52 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Blurbo311 View Post



I don't look at cars as investments, 99.9% of cars will not appreciate over time. However, I don't want to lose $20k in resale after 1-2 years, that's why I am not a new car buyer. M2 owners have benefited from near zero depreciation over the past two years, but at some point, something has to give and prices will drop. I would buy an M2 if I thought I could drive it for 2 years (typically my fun cars don't last longer than that) and resale would only drop $5k, but if its $15-20k, I'll spend my money elsewhere. Nothing is a given, but I (and others) like to be well educated on pricing in order to make the best decisions as possible.

I understand not all care about this stuff like I do, that's fine... We all enjoy different aspects of shopping for and owning cars.
Buying cars is ALWAYS more fun than reselling them :-)
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      11-29-2017, 11:59 AM   #43
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I wonder with the M2, GT350, and other niche cars if their wont be a cumulative BRZ effect on niche sports cars in general. Seemingly everyone I know that enjoys these types of cars and has the money to buy one, has purchased one in the past 2 years. Maybe that's just in my small world and there are still 1,000s of people waiting to but sports cars and extra cars, but maybe the whole sports/niche car market is about to cool off?



I don't look at cars as investments, 99.9% of cars will not appreciate over time. However, I don't want to lose $20k in resale after 1-2 years, that's why I am not a new car buyer. M2 owners have benefited from near zero depreciation over the past two years, but at some point, something has to give and prices will drop. I would buy an M2 if I thought I could drive it for 2 years (typically my fun cars don't last longer than that) and resale would only drop $5k, but if its $15-20k, I'll spend my money elsewhere. Nothing is a given, but I (and others) like to be well educated on pricing in order to make the best decisions as possible.

I understand not all care about this stuff like I do, that's fine... We all enjoy different aspects of shopping for and owning cars.
It might very well be that said market is cooling off, which would fine by me, because for once I have not bought a new car in 5 years now. My normal rotation used to be 1.5-3 years. It may be logical that it finally does. So many desirable cars in that price range have come on the market in the last few years, and there is only so much demand for it.

Well said about the depreciation. I just can't justify wasting that much money on a 2nd/fun car. I've done well many times on new cars e36 M3, e46 M3 and WRX STI. They all held their value exceptionally well, compared to other cars, but the way the M2 has stayed up there for the first 2 years is not normal and sooner or later the bottom will fall out........at least to a certain extend.
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      11-29-2017, 12:26 PM   #44
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People talk like the M2 CS will be available in mass quantities. Once it's released and the mark-up game starts all over again demand for the standard M2 will be just as strong, since potential CS buyers decide the OG M2 will satisfy them.
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