[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

If we're going to get into the cost of ownership... I'd assume the M2 would cost significantly more to insure.

Maybe 5% more.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by doccyber

Except also in "real" life I haven't seen an M2 at the dealer that doesn't have at least a 15 Grand plus mark up. And that's just the starting point.

Most dealers aren't doing M2 markups...

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by amw896

very true in Canada. Used M2s are going up into the low 80s. Equivalent low mileage 235s with lsd I've seen at high 40s.

Adjusted to USD, sales price in Canada is really low.

[DarkstarZero]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Most dealers aren't doing M2 markups...

** Most dealers aren't doing M2 markups on allocations.

(Annoyingly) smart dealerships have a marked up M2 in the showroom for that guy with more money than sense that just cant wait. And they'll sell it. For those that can wait, they can take an allocation at MSRP and wait 5 months.

[Vyruz Reaper]

Originally Posted by DarkstarZero

Not BS, insurance companies use KBB. If you were to total your car, they could give you more than you paid.

Not true with the M240i.

Let's say I've strolled around in their valuations department, they even know it's bs. They bought a company called buy book. Look them up. They use auction data to come up with heir values. Those are accurate. Funny thing is KBB refuses to use their valuation on their site. However if you do their instant cash offer, you get the buy book values because this deals with real money.

I wish my isurance company used kbb values, heck I even wish dealers used kbb values for my trade in. They don't.

[Eagle1oh7]

Too bad you can't find an M2 anywhere near the price of a loaded up 340i here in SD! Lol

[qballis]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

Here's the big difference:

Take 10 M240i owners. I bet at least 9 of them would rather have an M2.

Take 10 M2 owners. I bet at least 9 of them would rather not have an M240i.

We'll count me as the 1/10 m240i owners who would not rather have an M2.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by mc3456

The M2....but not as fast as one would expect, but it sure is pretty, and the experience is more intense.

From factory, it's as fast as an E9x M3 which, in and of itself, is not blazingly fast. You're right. But that's what tunes and downpipes are for...cheap and reliable power boosters.

[STK]

Originally Posted by patrickoccasionallydrives

please explain to me when and how the m2 is used in motorsports other than as a safety car. the m235i racing car is probably the closest this platform has come, to my knowledge the e30 m3 was the last M car directly involved with motorsport.

Nope. You could argue that the modifications in the DTM M cars were so extreme as not to make it a comparable M car to the street version or that some Ms were run by privateers and not the factory, but Ms have won on the track. I don't think we'll ever see the weird circumstances that made the E30 M3 available to the public ever again. If you recall, it was built as a race car and only became available to the public in a detuned version because Group A Touring Car racing required a minimum amount of commercial sales for homologation. Our gain, but no one would believe the story if it wasn't true.

From Wikipedia:

Automatic Racing had entered a BMW M6 into the 2008 Rolex Sports Car Series season, driven by an all American team consisting of Jep Thorton, Tom Long, Joe Varde and David Russell. Turner Motorsport entered a BMW M6 for the 2010 season, followed by two BMW M3s from 2011-2013. They have racked up six Rolex GT wins and 24 top ten finishes in the GT class, including rare double class wins for the GT M3 and GS M3 at the Circuit of the Americas round in 2013."

and

DTM 2012 and 2013 -

"BMW clinched its second consecutive manufacturers' championship in 2013 at the season finale at the Hockenheimring, after a close fight with Audi all season. Drivers' honors went to Audi driver Mike Rockenfeller; teams' to Audi Sport Team Phoenix. BMW claimed a spectacular 1-2-3 podium sweep at the Red Bull Ring in Salzburg, Austria with Bruno Spengler leading home Marco Wittmann and Timo Glock. BMW also locked out the first two rows in qualifying for the finale at Hockenheim. BMW secured 51 total DTM victories with the BMW M3, and will be switching to the all new M4 DTM for the 2014 season onwards"

[msej449]

You can't get a Convertible M2. One of the reasons I went for an M235i.

And let's face it, most of us drive on public roads, most of the time. There's no way that you can fully exploit the driving dynamics of an M2 legally on a public road. At least not in the South of England.

Plus I got a 16% discount on my M235i and 10 weeks delivery. My dealer also now offers all the M Performance parts on a M240i for just £2500 as well.

Finally, not everyone wants a track car as a DD. I did that one fifteen years ago with a Lotus and it got tedious after four years and three winters.

[mc3456]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

From factory, it's as fast as an E9x M3 which, in and of itself, is not blazingly fast. You're right. But that's what tunes and downpipes are for...cheap and reliable power boosters.

That's true, but it seems like the B58 tunes even better than the N55 so far. Don't pooh pooh the M240 because of M2 snobbery (not meaning you, just generally speaking), it's a fabulous car. I just sold my F80 to buy an Alfa Quadrifoglio, but I had been debating a M240i X-Drive convertible over the M2 because of its all season versatility here in New England. I love the look of the M2, minus the front fangs, and limited paint colors. I imagine it's pretty nimble to drive, but not a hell of a lot more impressive than the standard M240i on the road, if one is not tracking the car ever or often. The F80/F82 are still better all around, and actually lease out better.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by msej449

You can't get a Convertible M2. One of the reasons I went for an M235i.

And let's face it, most of us drive on public roads, most of the time. There's no way that you can fully exploit the driving dynamics of an M2 legally on a public road. At least not in the South of England.

Plus I got a 16% discount on my M235i and 10 weeks delivery. My dealer also now offers all the M Performance parts on a M240i for just £2500 as well.

Finally, not everyone wants a track car as a DD. I did that one fifteen years ago with a Lotus and it got tedious after four years and three winters.

"Fully exploit" being the key words. You can definitely exploit the wonderful driving dynamics of the M2 on the curvy country roads of NS... at legal speed limits too. But I agree you cannot take them to their limits and stay on the good side of legal.

I also would not say the M2 has a "track car" suspension setting. It is firm, but not to the extreme that makes it uncomfortable for me as a DD. Adaptive suspension is a cool feature... but I don't miss it (and almost find it kind of gimmicky).

M240i is definitely a great car for those that place more priority on what it has that the M2 doesn't (xDrive, colour choices, less in your face styling... and for people for whom newer is always better, the B58). I am just not one of those people

[tc328]

Originally Posted by qballis

We'll count me as the 1/10 m240i owners who would not rather have an M2.

Lies

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by mc3456

That's true, but it seems like the B58 tunes even better than the N55 so far. Don't pooh pooh the M240 because of M2 snobbery (not meaning you, just generally speaking), it's a fabulous car. I just sold my F80 to buy an Alfa Quadrifoglio, but I had been debating a M240i X-Drive convertible over the M2 because of its all season versatility here in New England. I love the look of the M2, minus the front fangs, and limited paint colors. I imagine it's pretty nimble to drive, but not a hell of a lot more impressive than the standard M240i on the road, if one is not tracking the car ever or often. The F80/F82 are still better all around, and actually lease out better.

The fangs aren't my favorite aesthetic either, hence the BSM color to help camouflage them. Nimble, yes. Straight line speed, sorta. C&D trapped it at 113 for both 6MT and DCT, 2 mph quicker than M240 with ZF8.

The B58 looks to be an overall superior motor. But does it share the S55 internals like the M2 N55 does?

[GeorgeA]

what does it mean when people say "the 240i is more drivable in the city"

I don't get this, a manual RWD 240i and a manual M2 both have the same "drivability" on any road. I really don't see why anyone would pay more money for a M240i. I do see why people buy 240is if they need AWD, get a better deal or better lease. But if you're paying the same money, or more, just doesn't make sense.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by GeorgeA

what does it mean when people say "the 240i is more drivable in the city"

I don't get this, a manual RWD 240i and a manual M2 both have the same "drivability" on any road. I really don't see why anyone would pay more money for a M240i. I do see why people buy 240is if they need AWD, get a better deal or better lease. But if you're paying the same money, or more, just doesn't make sense.

They're under the assumption that the adaptive suspension in the 240 is more compliant than the passive M suspension in the M2. I don't agree. I had the adaptive in my 435. Frankly, the M2 suspension is so much better damped. You do feel every road bump but it's not neck snapping. It's merely better tuned for rough roads.

[yaymitch]

Originally Posted by quikM2

back on topic and away from diffs (although my S4 had torque vectoring and it's pretty awesome although because audi isn't as balanced and setup as well as a BMW it needs it.)

Why would anyone buy a M240i over an M2? Is there any reason whatsoever to pay more for less? A lot less. I don't understand that at all. The only thing I could think of is you can get the m240 in awd. that is super appealing to me in Canada and through our winter. Other than that I don't see any logic or reason in that pricing structure. you pay more for an inferior car with less equipment, lower quality equipment and it doesn't look even close to as nice.

I bought the M240i over the M2 for several reasons:

1) M2 was a year wait.
2) already own M3
3) wanted a car that was better to just drive around town and more comfortable than the M2 on our shitty American roads.
4) wanted the B58 engine and the M2 CS will have the S55 soon enough which would leave me wanting that one instead.

Also, list price may be more on the M240i but in reality you pay more for the M2 because there is virtually no discount and in some cases folks are paying over MSRP. So, the M240i fully loaded with LSD was actually much less for me with my discount.

There you have it.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Tag

It's also well known that M2 numbers are underrated. Only dyno runs done back to back on the same machine and same day/conditions can prove that with certainty. In other words, I'll believe the B58 has close to or the same HP when I see it.

The open vs closed deck argument may be settled, but we may have a new contender on our hands!

This is far more clear cut than the open/closed deck fiasco. This is a simple matter of measurement.

Fortunately, Dinan dyno tests all their products on their wheel-hub dyno, under very well controlled environmental circumstances. They perform a baseline dyno test, as well as a tuned dyno test, so they can objectively state the gains achieved. Dinan's dyno tests are about as trustworthy as you can get outside of a BMW factory bench dyno.

Dinan Stage 1 for the M240i (B58):

BMW Factory Rated HP: 335 (369 Measured)
BMW Factory Rated Torque: 369 (415 Measured)

Dinan Stage 1 for the M2 (N55):

BMW Factory Rated HP: 365 (360 Measured)
BMW Factory Rated Torque: 343 (404 Measured)

The degree to which each engine is underrated is somewhat immaterial. Ultimately, power output is what matters, and by measurement, the B58 offered in the M240i matches the N55 in the M2.

It can confidently be said that the M240i has every bit as much horsepower as the M2, if not slightly more.

[bartginger]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

If we're going to get into the cost of ownership... I'd assume the M2 would cost significantly more to insure.

I'm coming from an M235i and read somewhere on this forum that the insurance increase from an M235i/M240i to an M2 is negligible. I'll let you know in a few weeks when I've picked up my new M2 and have called for insurance coverage on it.

[Vyruz Reaper]

Originally Posted by tc328

Lies

I prefer the M2 with a B58 engine. Doesn't exist.

I rate the B58 > m2 track extras. You really can mod it into a power beast.

I'm so over the n55. Once BMW puts the B58 in the m2, I'll make the switch over.

[Vyruz Reaper]

Originally Posted by GeorgeA

what does it mean when people say "the 240i is more drivable in the city"

I don't get this, a manual RWD 240i and a manual M2 both have the same "drivability" on any road. I really don't see why anyone would pay more money for a M240i. I do see why people buy 240is if they need AWD, get a better deal or better lease. But if you're paying the same money, or more, just doesn't make sense.

Suspension. It takes a toll on your back. The m240 is softer.

I also used to own a lotus Elsie and drives that as a DD, my back was slosh that year lol.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by quikM2

back on topic and away from diffs (although my S4 had torque vectoring and it's pretty awesome although because audi isn't as balanced and setup as well as a BMW it needs it.)

Why would anyone buy a M240i over an M2? Is there any reason whatsoever to pay more for less? A lot less. I don't understand that at all. The only thing I could think of is you can get the m240 in awd. that is super appealing to me in Canada and through our winter. Other than that I don't see any logic or reason in that pricing structure. you pay more for an inferior car with less equipment, lower quality equipment and it doesn't look even close to as nice.

While you correctly pointed the AWD which will make it more all-around driveable, I am at the point right now and I don't like:

- M offers four colors only. What is wrong with BMW? I don't know, but we should have a wider range of colors. I like the colors but we are getting too little and too common. BMW is or it is not a luxury company? And taking about M, why not offering more colors and have more happy customers? Why is BMW world so less chromatic?
Sharp Red, Ruby red, fire red, yellow, green, metallic green, blue green, beige, brown, I don't know, there are so many colors, yet the range is so poor!

BMW has so many blues that even the statistics talk about Blue BMW. Blue BMW don't signal, blue BMW drivers are aggressive, etc. I am pretty sure that is not the color, just that there is too much blue.
BMW does not acknowledged yet that people wrap their cars for more uniqueness?

- Second, I like the black interior but just the thought that all of them are the same is not appealing to me. Every M2 interior must be black? Why?
I like light colors, make me happy and feel good. I like white leather, beige, white, red, brown, grey, I don't know, more colors. I like different and the possibility to make my vehicle more unique.

Bottom line, I am thinking to get a 240M AWD with white interior. Love the M wide fenders but I need to like the car inside out.