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      03-05-2014, 12:32 PM   #221
kmarei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aust350z View Post
Thinking about the environment there is no place for a NA car that is performance oriented. It will never pass the increasingly difficult emission targets.

Forced induction in essence is saving the performance car from being redundant. The enthusiast driver needs to move with the times like what BMW and all other car markers need to as well. Ask GM if big, bulky, fuel hungry cars are in high demand anymore...
there are 2 ways to cut emissions, turbo charging is one
the other is to cut weight
the new Alfa 4c has similar performance to the E92 M3
it's actually a little faster (around Nurburgring)
yet the M3 gets an average of 17mpg, when the 4c gets 40mpg

also when you cut weight you save a lot on parts
lightweight car needs lighter brakes, smaller tires, lighter suspension, etc

my main point is now the 335/435 and the m3/m4 are 2 sides of the same coin

in the previous generation, you had the 335 which was turbo charged
and the M3 which was NA
you cater to 2 different markets
now you are essentially catering to the same market
its now simply a matter of if you can afford the m3 or if you can't you get the 335/435
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      03-05-2014, 12:35 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
So if you're interested in a NA M car
You're out of luck

Why would you make 3 cars that are all turbocharged?
It's now simply a matter of how large do you want it
You've got your small in the m2
Medium in the m3/4
And large in m5/6

Couldn't they have made on model for the fans of NA engines?
A highly tuned 4 cyl engine in a light weight body?
With all the talk about how advanced BMW is with carbon fiber manufacturing
You'd think they could come up with some shared parts to make this happen
BMW will never make another NA engine, let alone the M division. The future of the company is turbos for the near-future, hybrid over the next decade, and probably all-electric by 2030 or so. The writing's been on the wall for the last 3-4 years or so.
Never say never...

BMW does not believe in dogmas.
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      03-05-2014, 12:37 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by OverDriven View Post
To be honest, I don't think Scott has as much of an inside line on BMW developments as you guys think he does. I think that he is pretty far removed from the teams that actually develop these cars and know real inside details.
my guess is he works for the marking department
which is why his posts sound like the corny text in the bmw brochures

you lose my attention when you use words like lifestyle, activity etc to describe cars
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      03-05-2014, 01:27 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
my guess is he works for the marking department
which is why his posts sound like the corny text in the bmw brochures

you lose my attention when you use words like lifestyle, activity etc to describe cars
Of course he works for marketing - he rarely posts anything anymore that doesn't have some tie to whatever the "new" promo item of the moment might be.

Sad, but true...
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      03-05-2014, 02:00 PM   #225
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My conspiracy theory is that the 4 cylinder false rumors were being fed to us on purpose to push us not to wait for the M2 and pull the trigger on the M235.

Their lie was uncovered and Scott is now back pedaling with yet another false rumor about a 2er Tii that only exist in his imagination.
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      03-05-2014, 02:07 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Never say never...

BMW does not believe in dogmas.
But they sure as hell believe in CAFE and price of gas.
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      03-05-2014, 02:15 PM   #227
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just smoking the peace pipe and dreaming of the M2..wake me first when pre orders are available....wili I ever be waken up....before they say 'bookem dano'?
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      03-05-2014, 02:18 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Because in doing so you lose the enthusiast driver, since you don't make any NA cars for him
I mean if you like turbocharged cars, you have the 335/435 no?
What built the M name were naturally aspirated cars, fact

BMW has been making tons of money with bespoke M engines for decades
Why is it that suddenly, they say it costs too much?
It costs too much because you're being cheap, and you're trying to milk your brand name for every dime it's worth
Cost cutting is an industry wide thing, not just BMW. Look at the 991 GT3. It has absolutely nothing to do with the race cars anymore. They got rid of the legendary Mezger engine for something that is cheaper to produce yet the proper GT3 race cars are still using Mezger engines. Yet Porsche is supposed to be one of the most profitable car companies in the world.

It's unfortunate, but you just won't see many strictly N/A engines (no FI, no hybrid system) around for much longer in performance cars.
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      03-05-2014, 03:19 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Never say never...

BMW does not believe in dogmas.
But they sure as hell believe in CAFE and price of gas.
They are making a huge model line and at some point it will average out quite well. And then there will be less of a concern.

I like boost better anyway !!
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      03-05-2014, 03:37 PM   #230
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My local(ish) BMW dealer already has M2 coupes for sale!

http://www.bmwoftucson.com/VehicleDe...-AZ/2199450493
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      03-05-2014, 03:54 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by superpenguin View Post
My local(ish) BMW dealer already has M2 coupes for sale!

http://www.bmwoftucson.com/VehicleDe...-AZ/2199450493
SCOOP!!!! better than a spy shot, really. lol
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      03-05-2014, 04:43 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
there are 2 ways to cut emissions, turbo charging is one
the other is to cut weight
the new Alfa 4c has similar performance to the E92 M3
it's actually a little faster (around Nurburgring)
yet the M3 gets an average of 17mpg, when the 4c gets 40mpg
You do realise the Alfa 4C has a 4cyl turbo engine.......
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      03-05-2014, 04:45 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
My conspiracy theory is that the 4 cylinder false rumors were being fed to us on purpose to push us not to wait for the M2 and pull the trigger on the M235.
I'll still bet that the M2 will have a 4 cyl engine.
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      03-05-2014, 04:46 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Robin_NL
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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
No the E30 M3 did not rev to 8.000 RPM, but it revved much higher than most normal cars on those times, even Ferraris did not rev that high.
Yeah, at that time I was watching DTM a lot and preferred the 190e 2.3/2.5 16, I know the E30 M3 is an icon, and I love a nice Cecotto specced one, no worries.

Cheers
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that was the S14B25/7. 425 hp and 9600rpm.

T
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      03-05-2014, 04:49 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
My conspiracy theory is that the 4 cylinder false rumors were being fed to us on purpose to push us not to wait for the M2 and pull the trigger on the M235.

Their lie was uncovered and Scott is now back pedaling with yet another false rumor about a 2er Tii that only exist in his imagination.
Why do I feel like this might be the bare truth?
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      03-05-2014, 05:05 PM   #236
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Don't understand the N55 bashing. Look at the Alpina B4 BiTurbo. Its a N55 block with a pair of snails attached. That N55 in a 1300kg chassis would be a weapon even stock form.
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      03-05-2014, 06:15 PM   #237
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This is bad ass looking
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      03-06-2014, 04:30 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteA View Post
Don't understand the N55 bashing. Look at the Alpina B4 BiTurbo. Its a N55 block with a pair of snails attached. That N55 in a 1300kg chassis would be a weapon even stock form.
I'd like to know how an M2 with such an engine would weigh 1300 kg when an M235i weighs 1530 kg, more than an M4.
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      03-06-2014, 05:17 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I'd like to know how an M2 with such an engine would weigh 1300 kg when an M235i weighs 1530 kg, more than an M4.
Simple. CFRP driveshaft, roof, aluminium bonnet, boot and fenders, lightweight exhaust system, wheels, aluminium control arms and lighter brake package. Should get it pretty close.
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      03-06-2014, 08:22 AM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I'd like to know how an M2 with such an engine would weigh 1300 kg when an M235i weighs 1530 kg, more than an M4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteA View Post
Simple. CFRP driveshaft, roof, aluminium bonnet, boot and fenders, lightweight exhaust system, wheels, aluminium control arms and lighter brake package. Should get it pretty close.
Exactly. I've said it a million times. They left plenty of room after the M235i.
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      03-06-2014, 11:35 AM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
My conspiracy theory is that the 4 cylinder false rumors were being fed to us on purpose to push us not to wait for the M2 and pull the trigger on the M235.

Their lie was uncovered and Scott is now back pedaling with yet another false rumor about a 2er Tii that only exist in his imagination.
+1 it wouldn't surprise me at all to be honest.

Shitty...but ///Marketing at its best...

I have extended my 135 lease a few months to make time to get my M235, so I was going to have to buy something different regardless. But I am sure there are people that made the jump to the M235 based on perceptions around the M2 for sure...
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      03-06-2014, 11:50 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mangler View Post
that was the S14B25/7. 425 hp and 9600rpm.

T
LOL I was talking about this E30 M3 'Cecotto', 2.5 litre 175kW(238BHP @ 7000rpm?)



The Gr A and DTM versions reached beyond 9000rpm (DTM) eventually, but afaik 380/390PS was about it.(?)

I 'drive' a M3 myself in racesim Assetto Corsa, this one:


This is the BTCC 1992 livery # 22: Dr. Jonathan Palmer (the same guy who drove the worldrecord McLaren F1 streetcar at topspeed)
# 44: Steve Soper (in)famous driver also @ DTM for a while.


I have about 15 liveries(DTM, Rally, Gr A), Warsteiner Cecotto. Heger, etc.

Ravaglia not yet, but I have a 1:18 scale Minichamps model.



But now we're talking sim/scale model/ racing cars, not stock M cars

Cheers
Robin
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