[Yoshuey]

Ok, so currently in OG manual M2. And I’m thinking of a change.

I’ve been toying with changing to a manual, 997.2 and have been weighing up that as a potential next car.

However the other potential alternative that I’ve had a change of perspective of on is a manual 981 S.

I’ve noticed hardly any comparisons between these two online (and I know they were kinda a good few years apart to be direct competitors).

Anyone gone from the M2 to 981 s? Or vice versa? What are your thoughts on the fun factor / and performance? Ps I’m more into fast road driving/grand touring and not really into track work.

And naturally, I’m ignoring the practicality benefits of the M2 for now anyway.

[baege]

So I went from a 981S to an M2C (with a m240i in between) and now am back in a GTS 4.0

I would say 981S > M2 as a pure fun road car, just more of a sports car, more of an event to drive

naturally aspirated flat six trumps N55 in sound, throttle response and feel, M2 is quicker though and torquier
manual in 981S is better
handling I never had OG m2 but M2C handling is pretty fun, probably more fun around town than 981S, but both cars are enjoyable on the curves
interior in porsche feels and looks better

981S just gets at your soul in a way the M2 doesn't

happy to answer any specific questions

[Gizmo 335i]

Originally Posted by baege

So I went from a 981S to an M2C (with a m240i in between) and now am back in a GTS 4.0

I would say 981S > M2 as a pure fun road car, just more of a sports car, more of an event to drive

naturally aspirated flat six trumps N55 in sound, throttle response and feel, M2 is quicker though and torquier
manual in 981S is better
handling I never had OG m2 but M2C handling is pretty fun, probably more fun around town than 981S, but both cars are enjoyable on the curves
interior in porsche feels and looks better

981S just gets at your soul in a way the M2 doesn't

happy to answer any specific questions

Baege...I'm not the OP but I am curious about a couple of things. I own an M2C and have driven a few Caymans here and there but never back-to-back with my M2C...and it's been some time. I find the F87, like most BMWs, to have great all-around visibility due to the seat height and BMW's greenhouse design philosophy. How's the 981 to live with long-term when driving in normal traffic on normal roads? Big or normal blind spots?

Also, can you compare the road noise? My F87 has a lot of tire/road roar. I recall the Cayman being loud too but as above, I've never driven them back-to-back. What say you?

[baege]

Originally Posted by Gizmo 335i

Baege...I'm not the OP but I am curious about a couple of things. I own an M2C and have driven a few Caymans here and there but never back-to-back with my M2C...and it's been some time. I find the F87, like most BMWs, to have great all-around visibility due to the seat height and BMW's greenhouse design philosophy. How's the 981 to live with long-term when driving in normal traffic on normal roads? Big or normal blind spots?

Also, can you compare the road noise? My F87 has a lot of tire/road roar. I recall the Cayman being loud too but as above, I've never driven them back-to-back. What say you?

You are getting at one aspect of the M2C that I always really appreciated: it's easy to live with and have fun with. You can get into it with relative ease, you can see out of it well, it has decent clearance.

The 981 is still relatively easy to live with but it's definitely not as easy to live with as the M2C. 981 has decent visibility (no really bad blind spots unlike the C7 I had) but it takes more an effort to see out of it, get in and out of it and the clearance is worse.

In terms of road noise pretty similar I would say, no huge difference.

Overall I would say The 981 is more of an event to drive but also more of a chore.

sounds like you are looking for a daily, in that scenario M2C over 981 easy peasy.

[Gizmo 335i]

^^^Thanks for the comparison. Helpful!

[Yoshuey]

Thanks for the really good summary, and confirms a lot of what I was assuming just from how every speaks of the cars individually.

I wasn’t expecting you to say though the m2 was more fun pootling around town as a daily… would you say the caymans still fun as daily?

I’m not too fussed about open roads… even if the Cayman was the same as the OG M2 - I’m plenty happy with my OG from that perspective.

The only thing id say is lacking a little from the m2 is that feeling of sitting in something special or a low slung sports car.

But I guess that’s the compromise when going for practically.

In terms of runnings costs was Cayman significantly more? Or less or about the same… like in terms of servicing / fuel?

Originally Posted by baege

So I went from a 981S to an M2C (with a m240i in between) and now am back in a GTS 4.0

I would say 981S > M2 as a pure fun road car, just more of a sports car, more of an event to drive

naturally aspirated flat six trumps N55 in sound, throttle response and feel, M2 is quicker though and torquier
manual in 981S is better
handling I never had OG m2 but M2C handling is pretty fun, probably more fun around town than 981S, but both cars are enjoyable on the curves
interior in porsche feels and looks better

981S just gets at your soul in a way the M2 doesn't

happy to answer any specific questions

[Yoshuey]

And what sounds better - on a spirited drive? Sorry I know the OG is different to comp… for me at the top end with OG lacks a little drama from a noise perspective

Originally Posted by baege

So I went from a 981S to an M2C (with a m240i in between) and now am back in a GTS 4.0

I would say 981S > M2 as a pure fun road car, just more of a sports car, more of an event to drive

naturally aspirated flat six trumps N55 in sound, throttle response and feel, M2 is quicker though and torquier
manual in 981S is better
handling I never had OG m2 but M2C handling is pretty fun, probably more fun around town than 981S, but both cars are enjoyable on the curves
interior in porsche feels and looks better

981S just gets at your soul in a way the M2 doesn't

happy to answer any specific questions

[Yoshuey]

But if I’m being honest I rented a v10 r8 a while ago so I tend to compare everything to that… and obviously a i6/f6 is nothing compared to a v10

[Yoshuey]

Lastly how warm does the engine parcel shelf area get? I.e. could potentially transport small dogs on it… without cooking them?

Originally Posted by baege

So I went from a 981S to an M2C (with a m240i in between) and now am back in a GTS 4.0

I would say 981S > M2 as a pure fun road car, just more of a sports car, more of an event to drive

naturally aspirated flat six trumps N55 in sound, throttle response and feel, M2 is quicker though and torquier
manual in 981S is better
handling I never had OG m2 but M2C handling is pretty fun, probably more fun around town than 981S, but both cars are enjoyable on the curves
interior in porsche feels and looks better

981S just gets at your soul in a way the M2 doesn't

happy to answer any specific questions

[baege]

Originally Posted by Yoshuey

Thanks for the really good summary, and confirms a lot of what I was assuming just from how every speaks of the cars individually.

I wasn’t expecting you to say though the m2 was more fun pootling around town as a daily… would you say the caymans still fun as daily?

I’m not too fussed about open roads… even if the Cayman was the same as the OG M2 - I’m plenty happy with my OG from that perspective.

The only thing id say is lacking a little from the m2 is that feeling of sitting in something special or a low slung sports car.

But I guess that’s the compromise when going for practically.

In terms of runnings costs was Cayman significantly more? Or less or about the same… like in terms of servicing / fuel?

happy to help, I myself am partial to always thinking about the next car!

so I mean the cayman is still a fun car around town as a daily, but definitely less fun than an M2 which has more torque, shorter gearing, better visibility and clearance, and more playful handling, you can access the fun easier in an M2, cayman needs open roads to shine

cayman is more for servicing etc (the porsche tax), fuel is similar

[baege]

Originally Posted by Yoshuey

And what sounds better - on a spirited drive? Sorry I know the OG is different to comp… for me at the top end with OG lacks a little drama from a noise perspective

cayman definitely sounds better, that flat six wail is something else

[baege]

Originally Posted by Yoshuey

Lastly how warm does the engine parcel shelf area get? I.e. could potentially transport small dogs on it… without cooking them?

can't say I have ever really touched it, but it definitely gets warm back there, it is carpeted though

[baege]

Originally Posted by Yoshuey

Lastly how warm does the engine parcel shelf area get? I.e. could potentially transport small dogs on it… without cooking them?

can't say I have ever really touched it after a drive, but it definitely gets warm back there, it is carpeted though

[MannyM5]

I previously had a 981s 6mt spec’d with all the GTS options. I now have an OG M2 6mt. Both are great cars but drive quite differently.

Fun factor I’d say the M2 has a much more playful rear end and a lot of fun at slower speeds with the great low-midrange torque. Makes a nice sound for a turbo car.

Cayman has much better steering feel, shifter, throttle response, suspension(mine had the x73 suspension). Cayman excels in the higher speed sweepers/canyon carving. Fun to rev out the motor and makes a great sound(mine had fabspeed headers and PSE). Slower speed it’s not as fun with the lack of torque and longer gearing.

I tracked both and they run very comparable lap times(just under 1min at Lime Rock on 200tw tires).

I switched to the m2 for a couple reasons. My wife and I had a baby recently so it’s nice to be able to throw a car seat in the back. The Porsche used market was very good last year so the timing was right to sell. I now have an s2000 and the m2 which compliment each other really nicely and allows me to still get the NA high revving thrill and great shifter feel from the Honda which is missing in the m2.

Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns OP.

[MannyM5]

Originally Posted by Yoshuey

Lastly how warm does the engine parcel shelf area get? I.e. could potentially transport small dogs on it… without cooking them?

I think this is doable. It does get a little warm, but it’s pretty well insulated and I never noticed any excessive added heat in the cabin. It’s also pretty large/practical back there considering.

[Shueb]

thanks man. yeh the main reason I'm really thinking about the cayman is the whole Porsche factor / the proper sports coupe factor / and driving dynamics.

But I think I might just have to wait until I can get into a 997.2 instead after this weekend - just realised how much more benefit the M2 has (6 rolls of turf, large toolbox and two small dogs in the rear... which I'm not sure the cayman could pull off as easily.

And with the windows down - the M2 sounds brilliant, windows up tho... maybe a bit too much sound insulation.

Also just discovered that I can potentially get CarPlay on my iDrive - which could be a dealbreaker at this moment.

Anyway no doubt I'm going to go back and forth on this 1000 times before I just end up flipping a coin... as I write this I'm changing my mind again!

Originally Posted by baege

happy to help, I myself am partial to always thinking about the next car!

so I mean the cayman is still a fun car around town as a daily, but definitely less fun than an M2 which has more torque, shorter gearing, better visibility and clearance, and more playful handling, you can access the fun easier in an M2, cayman needs open roads to shine

cayman is more for servicing etc (the porsche tax), fuel is similar

[Shueb]

Stunning!

Quite funny - I guess most Manual M2 drivers have very similar taste in cars - I spent ages looking to get a S2000 brand new at the time (but didn't have a deposit at the time to secure one of the last of the factory).

Yeh I guess its the whole idea of revving an engine out is whats most satisfying on a canyon (or mountain road blast - I'm from Europe!)

The problem is how often I get to go on a proper long run - and I guess I gotta decide, do I want more of the daily fun and convenience - or that 2-3 times a year when I go a cross country/continent road trip and have a run thats on another level!

The Cayman S I'm looking at is also in white - just lacks the sports Chrono (otherwise I think I would possibly jump to it)

LAST QUESTION - Cayman S Manual - is the Sports Chrono anything other than merely a last timer (Not been able to find definitive info if the sports Chrono includes performance enhancements)

Thanks for the info man

Originally Posted by MannyM5

I previously had a 981s 6mt spec’d with all the GTS options. I now have an OG M2 6mt. Both are great cars but drive quite differently.

Fun factor I’d say the M2 has a much more playful rear end and a lot of fun at slower speeds with the great low-midrange torque. Makes a nice sound for a turbo car.

Cayman has much better steering feel, shifter, throttle response, suspension(mine had the x73 suspension). Cayman excels in the higher speed sweepers/canyon carving. Fun to rev out the motor and makes a great sound(mine had fabspeed headers and PSE). Slower speed it’s not as fun with the lack of torque and longer gearing.

I tracked both and they run very comparable lap times(just under 1min at Lime Rock on 200tw tires).

I switched to the m2 for a couple reasons. My wife and I had a baby recently so it’s nice to be able to throw a car seat in the back. The Porsche used market was very good last year so the timing was right to sell. I now have an s2000 and the m2 which compliment each other really nicely and allows me to still get the NA high revving thrill and great shifter feel from the Honda which is missing in the m2.

Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns OP.

[Shueb]

Something very cool about loading up a two seater coupe full of luggage etc!

Originally Posted by MannyM5

I think this is doable. It does get a little warm, but it’s pretty well insulated and I never noticed any excessive added heat in the cabin. It’s also pretty large/practical back there considering.

[MannyM5]

Originally Posted by Shueb

Stunning!

Quite funny - I guess most Manual M2 drivers have very similar taste in cars - I spent ages looking to get a S2000 brand new at the time (but didn't have a deposit at the time to secure one of the last of the factory).

Yeh I guess its the whole idea of revving an engine out is whats most satisfying on a canyon (or mountain road blast - I'm from Europe!)

The problem is how often I get to go on a proper long run - and I guess I gotta decide, do I want more of the daily fun and convenience - or that 2-3 times a year when I go a cross country/continent road trip and have a run thats on another level!

The Cayman S I'm looking at is also in white - just lacks the sports Chrono (otherwise I think I would possibly jump to it)

LAST QUESTION - Cayman S Manual - is the Sports Chrono anything other than merely a last timer (Not been able to find definitive info if the sports Chrono includes performance enhancements)

Thanks for the info man

Yeah I always wanted an s2000 back in my teen/high school days, so when I came across this super clean all original ap1 local and private, I jumped on it.

In regards to sport chrono.. Besides the lap timer, the main differences are in regards to the addition of the sport plus button. This increases throttle response, loosens up the traction control(similar to MDM in the bmw world), adds auto rev match(except when tc is fully off), stiffens up the now included dynamic transmission mounts..
I prefer driving with auto rev match and traction control fully off anyway, so for me the chrono package wasn’t necessary although my car did have it. I also preferred the throttle mapping in the middle sport setting over the more sensitive sport plus. That all comes down to personal preference though and cars with the chrono package do have better resale.

[steve457]

I owned both a Cayman 981S and my M2C for over 2.5 years. I still have my M2C, but sold the Cayman when I upgraded to a GT3. I purchased both the 981 and my M2C pretty much at the same time (within a few months), as my intention was to daily the M2C and use the Cayman for fun/track duty. I probably did over 20 track days with the Cayman and it was definitely a blast!

My 981 was a PDK, so I can't speak to the manual in it, but the PDK was great for the track. Just cruising on the highway I would get close to 30mpg given the tall 7th gear. Mine had all the sport options such as PTV, PSE, PASM, and Sport Chrono. I would recommend going with either PASM or the X73 suspension if you could find it as it lowers the car a bit and improves handling even more. I felt with PASM that the 981 was more comfortable than the M2C, and that the suspension was just more sophisticated if that makes any sense. It just felt planted, but didn't rattle your teeth out.

Both are fun cars and you can't really go wrong with either. Since I used the Cayman as a fun/track car it always felt more special to me when driving it. Not sure if that would change if I used it as a daily. Your seating position is low, and the sound of the engine can't be beat. Honestly, even my GT3 feels similar, just a bit quicker and stiffer, but the overall Porsche feel is still there in the Cayman.

In terms of practicality though, the M2 wins hands down. 4 seats and a trunk. I struggled to put golf clubs into my Cayman, so never did. The Cayman does have a good size frunk and space in the back, and had more than enough space for doing overnight trips to different tracks, but for daily use if hauling around more than one other person + dogs, the M2 would be the better option.

In terms of maintenance costs it depends. If you go to the Porsche dealer you will pay dearly for service. If you go to an independent shop or DIY most of the regular work the costs are not high at all. I probably went through at least 3 sets of rotors/pads, but they weren't priced that high. I usually ordered through FCP Euro and did my own work. They have an amazing policy where you can "return" used rotors and pads for credit on your replacement items.

Here is a short video I took where I was trying to compare what each sounded like doing a cold start. The sound kind of sucks though, as the camera position or echoing in the garage made both sound a bit odd.

[Shueb]

Thanks man. Yeh actually went to see a cayman local to me today and sit in for the first time.

Without driving it, defo feels special and more in the vain of what I would want from a proper sports car (low, hunkered in feel). And the whole mid-engined, two seater thing is fairly rare at that price point.

Anyway I watched another comparison video today (981 GTS vs M2) by Everyday Driver - doesn't make it any easier.

The one thing I guess is making me wanting to stick with my M2 for now anyway is the Cayman S thats up for sale doesn't have Sports Chrono or PTV - and probably two options I absolutely would want - and I think I'm going to have a bit of wait especially in for one in a manual form and in my budget.

And to be honest - whenever I take the M2 on a blast - it reminds me how good it is... and do like that it can feel on edge (more personality etc).

Originally Posted by steve457

I owned both a Cayman 981S and my M2C for over 2.5 years. I still have my M2C, but sold the Cayman when I upgraded to a GT3. I purchased both the 981 and my M2C pretty much at the same time (within a few months), as my intention was to daily the M2C and use the Cayman for fun/track duty. I probably did over 20 track days with the Cayman and it was definitely a blast!

My 981 was a PDK, so I can't speak to the manual in it, but the PDK was great for the track. Just cruising on the highway I would get close to 30mpg given the tall 7th gear. Mine had all the sport options such as PTV, PSE, PASM, and Sport Chrono. I would recommend going with either PASM or the X73 suspension if you could find it as it lowers the car a bit and improves handling even more. I felt with PASM that the 981 was more comfortable than the M2C, and that the suspension was just more sophisticated if that makes any sense. It just felt planted, but didn't rattle your teeth out.

Both are fun cars and you can't really go wrong with either. Since I used the Cayman as a fun/track car it always felt more special to me when driving it. Not sure if that would change if I used it as a daily. Your seating position is low, and the sound of the engine can't be beat. Honestly, even my GT3 feels similar, just a bit quicker and stiffer, but the overall Porsche feel is still there in the Cayman.

In terms of practicality though, the M2 wins hands down. 4 seats and a trunk. I struggled to put golf clubs into my Cayman, so never did. The Cayman does have a good size frunk and space in the back, and had more than enough space for doing overnight trips to different tracks, but for daily use if hauling around more than one other person + dogs, the M2 would be the better option.

In terms of maintenance costs it depends. If you go to the Porsche dealer you will pay dearly for service. If you go to an independent shop or DIY most of the regular work the costs are not high at all. I probably went through at least 3 sets of rotors/pads, but they weren't priced that high. I usually ordered through FCP Euro and did my own work. They have an amazing policy where you can "return" used rotors and pads for credit on your replacement items.

Here is a short video I took where I was trying to compare what each sounded like doing a cold start. The sound kind of sucks though, as the camera position or echoing in the garage made both sound a bit odd.

[to_riffic]

The thing I liked about the 981, which I had a 981 GT4 for a couple of years before I sold it, was that when you sit in it, it definitely has an "all business" type of feel to it. The focus is on the drive, that's it, and that's what I loved about it.

Forget all the tech (which sucks anyways compared to a BMW), and all you wanna do is drive.