[Nortdort]

Originally Posted by stefan

Yeah I've noticed that about M4 m5 as well. Nappa eh? Maybe there is a discrepancy in what the brands refer to it as. All I know is, having owned one as well, Audi leather is much more durable.

Just to throw my 2 cents in, my buddy has had a 2017 S3 for less than a year now and has a significant crease on the driver side bolster. Now it could be user error, or lack or maintenance but just food for thought.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Nortdort

Just to throw my 2 cents in, my buddy has had a 2017 S3 for less than a year now and has a significant crease on the driver side bolster. Now it could be user error, or lack or maintenance but just food for thought.

My driver side bolster on the M2 looks like shit already. I was telling the BMW service department it's defective. They said it's normal. Then I said find me another bolster with less than 10k miles on it that looks this bad! They won't be able to do it It's defective!

[M2PDX]

4 Impressions from a Test Drive:

As the owner of 5 BMWs in a row (including 4 M3s), I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't really intrigued by the reports of the new RS3. Maybe this is the unicorn I've been looking for? The reincarnation of the E36, compact and agile, just with more power and a really cool dual clutch and all of the modern amenities?

I waited many months, called all of the local dealers, and finally got the call from my friendly local Audi dealer (great dealership and great people) who called to say "They have arrived. And one them is still available, so you can do a test drive!"

I jumped in my M3, and rushed over to the dealer. Took a good half hour looking it over and going through it with the Audi rep, and then got it out on the road. Now, granted, a test drive in a dealer owned vehicle has its limits. And with someone in the passenger seat on public roads, I certainly wasn't going to go full tilt. But, for whatever it's worth here are my thoughts (others may agree or disagree. Hey....it's America! We all get our own opinion).

1) The steering to me feels uncommunicative. Light, yes, but really doesn't give you much feedback. Even in "Dynamic" mode. Having bitched and moaned about the steering in my F80, I was hoping for something better. Ended up disappointed. Sport and sport plus in my M at least give me some more weighting.

2) Fast. Yes, it's fast! But there is turbo lag. Below 3,000 RPM, it seems a bit sluggish. My own personal thought was that the dual clutch transmission didn't do as good a job at keeping the engine in the power band as the DCT F80s or M2s I've had the opportunity to drive.

3) It's really small on the inside. No bigger than the A4s of 20 years ago. Not a lot of elbow room in the drivers seat. Really small. And if you are going to have to carry a couple of golfing buddies or teenagers anywhere on the weekend, this probably isn't the car for you, even with 4 doors.

4) Now, I know this sounds stupid, but it looks really boring in black. If it had been Ava Blue or Nano (Nardo for us Bimmerfolks) gray, that would have spiced it up a bit. The M2 and M3/4 look sinister in black. Looks are a personal thing, but I think 98% of the public wouldn't even notice it if an RS3 drove by.

5) I missed the manual. I've thought many a time that "maybe I need a dual clutch. They're faster, more advanced, and really super cool." But then I drove this one and I felt strangely disconnected. I tried using the paddle shifters, but to no avail. Maybe I'm just too old school.

Oops, that's 5 impressions. Oh well.

Bottom line,

Overall, it made me appreciate my M3 a little more. I'd still love an M2 in a 4 door version, but I've given up hope of that occurring in my lifetime. Maybe I just add a JB4 to my M3? Or buy that E36 that just went up on craigslist. Slower, older, outdated technology, but still got some magic. And at the price, I could keep the new one too!

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Mustangquadcam

4 Impressions from a Test Drive:

As the owner of 5 BMWs in a row (including 4 M3s), I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't really intrigued by the reports of the new RS3. Maybe this is the unicorn I've been looking for? The reincarnation of the E36, compact and agile, just with more power and a really cool dual clutch and all of the modern amenities?

I waited many months, called all of the local dealers, and finally got the call from my friendly local Audi dealer (great dealership and great people) who called to say "They have arrived. And one them is still available, so you can do a test drive!"

I jumped in my M3, and rushed over to the dealer. Took a good half hour looking it over and going through it with the Audi rep, and then got it out on the road. Now, granted, a test drive in a dealer owned vehicle has its limits. And with someone in the passenger seat on public roads, I certainly wasn't going to go full tilt. But, for whatever it's worth here are my thoughts (others may agree or disagree. Hey....it's America! We all get our own opinion).

1) The steering to me feels uncommunicative. Light, yes, but really doesn't give you much feedback. Even in "Dynamic" mode. Having bitched and moaned about the steering in my F80, I was hoping for something better. Ended up disappointed. Sport and sport plus in my M at least give me some more weighting.

2) Fast. Yes, it's fast! But there is turbo lag. Below 3,000 RPM, it seems a bit sluggish. My own personal thought was that the dual clutch transmission didn't do as good a job at keeping the engine in the power band as the DCT F80s or M2s I've had the opportunity to drive.

3) It's really small on the inside. No bigger than the A4s of 20 years ago. Not a lot of elbow room in the drivers seat. Really small. And if you are going to have to carry a couple of golfing buddies or teenagers anywhere on the weekend, this probably isn't the car for you, even with 4 doors.

4) Now, I know this sounds stupid, but it looks really boring in black. If it had been Ava Blue or Nano (Nardo for us Bimmerfolks) gray, that would have spiced it up a bit. The M2 and M3/4 look sinister in black. Looks are a personal thing, but I think 98% of the public wouldn't even notice it if an RS3 drove by.

5) I missed the manual. I've thought many a time that "maybe I need a dual clutch. They're faster, more advanced, and really super cool." But then I drove this one and I felt strangely disconnected. I tried using the paddle shifters, but to no avail. Maybe I'm just too old school.

Oops, that's 5 impressions. Oh well.

Bottom line,

Overall, it made me appreciate my M3 a little more. I'd still love an M2 in a 4 door version, but I've given up hope of that occurring in my lifetime. Maybe I just add a JB4 to my M3? Or buy that E36 that just went up on craigslist. Slower, older, outdated technology, but still got some magic. And at the price, I could keep the new one too!

What a 4 door M2 offer you that your M3 doesn't? Exhaust sound? A bit smaller and reduced weight at the cost of less usable back seats? Cheaper?

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by Mustangquadcam

4 Impressions from a Test Drive:

As the owner of 5 BMWs in a row (including 4 M3s), I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't really intrigued by the reports of the new RS3. Maybe this is the unicorn I've been looking for? The reincarnation of the E36, compact and agile, just with more power and a really cool dual clutch and all of the modern amenities?

I waited many months, called all of the local dealers, and finally got the call from my friendly local Audi dealer (great dealership and great people) who called to say "They have arrived. And one them is still available, so you can do a test drive!"

I jumped in my M3, and rushed over to the dealer. Took a good half hour looking it over and going through it with the Audi rep, and then got it out on the road. Now, granted, a test drive in a dealer owned vehicle has its limits. And with someone in the passenger seat on public roads, I certainly wasn't going to go full tilt. But, for whatever it's worth here are my thoughts (others may agree or disagree. Hey....it's America! We all get our own opinion).

1) The steering to me feels uncommunicative. Light, yes, but really doesn't give you much feedback. Even in "Dynamic" mode. Having bitched and moaned about the steering in my F80, I was hoping for something better. Ended up disappointed. Sport and sport plus in my M at least give me some more weighting.

2) Fast. Yes, it's fast! But there is turbo lag. Below 3,000 RPM, it seems a bit sluggish. My own personal thought was that the dual clutch transmission didn't do as good a job at keeping the engine in the power band as the DCT F80s or M2s I've had the opportunity to drive.

3) It's really small on the inside. No bigger than the A4s of 20 years ago. Not a lot of elbow room in the drivers seat. Really small. And if you are going to have to carry a couple of golfing buddies or teenagers anywhere on the weekend, this probably isn't the car for you, even with 4 doors.

4) Now, I know this sounds stupid, but it looks really boring in black. If it had been Ava Blue or Nano (Nardo for us Bimmerfolks) gray, that would have spiced it up a bit. The M2 and M3/4 look sinister in black. Looks are a personal thing, but I think 98% of the public wouldn't even notice it if an RS3 drove by.

5) I missed the manual. I've thought many a time that "maybe I need a dual clutch. They're faster, more advanced, and really super cool." But then I drove this one and I felt strangely disconnected. I tried using the paddle shifters, but to no avail. Maybe I'm just too old school.

Oops, that's 5 impressions. Oh well.

Bottom line,

Overall, it made me appreciate my M3 a little more. I'd still love an M2 in a 4 door version, but I've given up hope of that occurring in my lifetime. Maybe I just add a JB4 to my M3? Or buy that E36 that just went up on craigslist. Slower, older, outdated technology, but still got some magic. And at the price, I could keep the new one too!

You thought were looking to an Audi for good steering feel?

Add a JB4 or flash tune on the F80, when you spin 1st - 3rd it will put a smile on your face. I think my M2 feels pretty close to the E36 M3 sedan and E46 M3 in size and width but has most the power of the F80. I feel my F80 is a little more peaky with power delivery than the M2 actually.

[norberts]

So the 2018 M2 with my configuration comes at 59,550 and the RS3 61,200. Closer than ever and practically the same price. Decision just got a little harder.

I think the RS3 test drive will decide it for sure either way.

[StefanV]

I think you can get the RS3 after M235i only by not test driving it

[Alex_bm]

Had a chance to drive the RS3 recently.
It doesn't feel as raw as M3/M4 or even compared to M2. This is both in a good and a bad way.
RS3 would be a lot easier to live with on a daily basis. Suspension is way more compliant compared to Ms while still keeping the car perfectly planted and flat when taking corners.
The power is very simple to modulate, there are no surprises in power delivery. It's there if you want it, but you have to use the gas pedal.

All of that makes the car better daily driver in my opinion while taking some of the fun out of the equation. If you are not going to drive a lot in city with poor roads, slow traffic, taking passengers, etc. I would pick M2 over the RS. M3/M4 are just too big, honestly.
For me personally RS3 is a better car at the moment as I will be using it for all the things just mentioned plus some occasional fun rides. It also comes few grand cheaper compared to M2 in my case. Discounts are available for the Audi, not for M2, but maintenance will come with a price.

There is no comparison to M235. RS is in a different league. 235 is fun for sure, but at the same time it's not very sharp in its steering, brakes, handling. Definitely not as focused as RS3.

P.S. RS3 also sounds a lot better than M3/M4. M2 comes close.

[Alex_bm]

Just putting it here. Look at the 0-200 acceleration times.

vs

[termigni]

I went to check out a blue RS3 over the weekend as my brother was interested in it. I'm sorry to sound like a typical BMW fanboy in a BMW forum but this car did nothing to stir my emotions. I really tried to like it while looking at the car in person. From the reviews and paper, it's fantastic. I bet this car is a better ride for street driving all year long.

But I feel like a car like this has to offer wide body like the M cars. RS3 proportions are just the same as A3 which is a economy family sedan that stems from VW Jetta. S3 is understandable but when you go to RS, you need some road presence which this car lacks badly. I know M2 is a baseline BMW 2 series too but it at least has proper proportions of classic BMW coupe with unmistakable wide body (on M2). The old RS4 was badass which I love. Why not 2018 RS3?? I was so pissed that Audi pulled a quick one on this, at least in the design department. and the rims? UGH!

It's $10k more than the M2 in the USA btw.

[stren]

Originally Posted by termigni

It's $10k more than the M2 in the USA btw.

To be fair if you compare a stripper RS3 (only option I would consider necessary would be the dynamic package) then the MSRP should be 56350 + fees.

Compare that to a stripped M2 DCT and you're looking at 56400 + fees.

So apples to apples it isn't that bad. But... right now you can't get that stripped out RS3, and if I were to order an RS3, I'd actually add on some other crap and it would end up at 62K while if I were going M2 I'd get 6MT, moonroof, paint and the price would only be 55K.

[Alex_bm]

For 10k over M2 I don't think RS3 is a good value. In Canada the pricing is different where RS3 is actually a little bit cheaper.

[///M2Seoul]

Originally Posted by termigni

I went to check out a blue RS3 over the weekend as my brother was interested in it. I'm sorry to sound like a typical BMW fanboy in a BMW forum but this car did nothing to stir my emotions. I really tried to like it while looking at the car in person. From the reviews and paper, it's fantastic. I bet this car is a better ride for street driving all year long.

But I feel like a car like this has to offer wide body like the M cars. RS3 proportions are just the same as A3 which is a economy family sedan that stems from VW Jetta. S3 is understandable but when you go to RS, you need some road presence which this car lacks badly. I know M2 is a baseline BMW 2 series too but it at least has proper proportions of classic BMW coupe with unmistakable wide body (on M2). The old RS4 was badass which I love. Why not 2018 RS3?? I was so pissed that Audi pulled a quick one on this, at least in the design department. and the rims? UGH!

It's $10k more than the M2 in the USA btw.

I agree wholeheartedly about the RS3 needing a widebody to distinguish from the A3 and S3.

Having put a deposit on the RS3 and literally a trade-in away from signing on the dotted line, I can also say that the car does not excite like the M2.

I know Audi is trying to market and say that the RS's are born on the track, but I think Audi is a bit confused. They add a sunroof, which is quite heavy, as standard on all RS3's sold in the US and then they go and offer manual seats and say it's to save weight??? I guess Audi thinks folks here in the States are idiots. First that's contradictory, as you added weight to the car and in the worst place which is up top on the roof, then you justify manual seats as saying that the car is built for track and thus to save weight??? We all know it's all a monetary thing and Audi simply went cheap to save costs and are trying to maximize margin.

At least BMW got it right by not adding a sunroof but making it optional for those that want it. Then with the performance edition you can also get manual seats for weight savings.

So let's be honest, if you want a fun car that is truly built for the track stick with the M2. If you want a semi-lux sedan that has tremendous power but can be tracked once in awhile, then the RS3 is a good option. But let's at least get it straight that the RS3 is in no way "built on the track."

[CosmosMpower]

Audi...track car LOL

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Alex_bm

For 10k over M2 I don't think RS3 is a good value. In Canada the pricing is different where RS3 is actually a little bit cheaper.

I priced both out all the way to the final total and the rs3 was 8K cheaper loaded versus the m2 with mpe all options. Canada.

Ultimately its dct. Funny on the widebody comment I thought it was a misprint that the tires are 235 section.

[Alex_bm]

Originally Posted by stefan

I priced both out all the way to the final total and the rs3 was 8K cheaper loaded versus the m2 with mpe all options. Canada.

Ultimately its dct. Funny on the widebody comment I thought it was a misprint that the tires are 235 section.

Or 255 at the front.

[Alex_bm]

Completely agree with your last statement.

I am not sure how RS3 will hold on the track vs. M2 in terms of numbers. But it's guaranteed to give you more smiles when driving hard. The main question is what's the proportion of "hard" driving vs. daily usage.

Originally Posted by ///M2Seoul

I agree wholeheartedly about the RS3 needing a widebody to distinguish from the A3 and S3.

Having put a deposit on the RS3 and literally a trade-in away from signing on the dotted line, I can also say that the car does not excite like the M2.

I know Audi is trying to market and say that the RS's are born on the track, but I think Audi is a bit confused. They add a sunroof, which is quite heavy, as standard on all RS3's sold in the US and then they go and offer manual seats and say it's to save weight??? I guess Audi thinks folks here in the States are idiots. First that's contradictory, as you added weight to the car and in the worst place which is up top on the roof, then you justify manual seats as saying that the car is built for track and thus to save weight??? We all know it's all a monetary thing and Audi simply went cheap to save costs and are trying to maximize margin.

At least BMW got it right by not adding a sunroof but making it optional for those that want it. Then with the performance edition you can also get manual seats for weight savings.

So let's be honest, if you want a fun car that is truly built for the track stick with the M2. If you want a semi-lux sedan that has tremendous power but can be tracked once in awhile, then the RS3 is a good option. But let's at least get it straight that the RS3 is in no way "built on the track."

[DoggieHowser]

Originally Posted by stefan

I priced both out all the way to the final total and the rs3 was 8K cheaper loaded versus the m2 with mpe all options. Canada.

Ultimately its dct. Funny on the widebody comment I thought it was a misprint that the tires are 235 section.

You added in all the MPE stuff and said the M2 was more expensive!???

[stefan]

Originally Posted by DoggieHowser

You added in all the MPE stuff and said the M2 was more expensive!???

No. Mpe is M performance exhaust. I just meant all options as well. And the rs3 was near loaded with sport exhaust as well.

[DoggieHowser]

Originally Posted by Alex_bm

Or 255 at the front.

The RS3 I saw in the showroom had same sized tyres front and rear.

[DS_BMW]

I think the RS3 does not look agressive enough. Only thing going for it over the S3 is the 5 cylinder.

[Alex_bm]

Not everyone cares about the agressive look. There are other things to the RS3 compared to S3. Once you drive them both you will notice. The difference is literally in every aspect of the driving experience.

While M2 arguably looks more agressive, it doesn't look "pretty" from all angles. BMW was trying to position it appropriately and it shows. The rear section of any 2er including the M2 is the weakest angle in my opinion.

RS3 is the more subtle between the two, no doubt. Also much more practical.
All depends on your interests.

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

I think the RS3 does not look agressive enough. Only thing going for it over the S3 is the 5 cylinder.