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      05-25-2018, 05:59 PM   #1
BlacMacJac
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M2C vs Alfa Giulia QV?

Look, I know these are two very different cars. Both in body style and price.
But, they are two that I am considering. In fact, the M2 was the lone car until a new AR dealer appeared in my vicinity and not an hour's drive away.

My arguments against the QV are:
  • the dealer/service network is really immature and questionable. When you add that to the fact you're dealing with an Italian sports car - well, it's just something to worry about.
  • It also doesn't come in a manual, which was a major, major issue for me.
  • It's infotainment system is circa 2010.

My argument for the QV.
  • It is stunning to drive. OMG, it is a wonderful driving experience, the sound is as good as it gets, and it's so good I forgot it was an auto.
  • I love the looks, the exclusivity of it, the idea of owning an Italian car.

But, I the concerns about the ownership experience haunt me back to my time with my B7 RS4 and the realities of a heavy, hi HP saloon. (tires, brakes, MPG)

I've never owned a BMW, was a bit underwhelmed in my one M2 test drive (it was raining that day) and wonder if when I am ready to make a decision later this year how long it will take me to get one. Oh, and it's not like BMW doesn't have it's own on-going maintenance concerns.


anyway - just wondering if anyone else here is pondering the same?
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      05-26-2018, 07:34 AM   #2
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I briefly considered one but then read reports that something as simple as a cracked windshield was a 3 month wait for new glass. They also lease poorly and I wasn't willing to do a purchase on a car with such unknown reliability.
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      05-26-2018, 09:21 AM   #3
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Love the look and sound of the QV but there's absolutely no way in hell I'd buy one outright, take the depreciation hit, and put myself at the mercy of the FCA dealer network. I'll ride the bus first.

So that leaves leasing. But even then, 36 months at the mercy of FCA...still not an appetizing proposition.

My plan, if that were the car I decided on, would be to bide my time until one popped up on Swapalease and do a short-term lease assumption on one. Get it out of my system, get to drive it, but without the long term relationship.

I just get the feeling that's a car you want a one-nighter with, but you don't want to put a ring on her finger.
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      05-27-2018, 07:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwares View Post
Love the look and sound of the QV but there's absolutely no way in hell I'd buy one outright, take the depreciation hit, and put myself at the mercy of the FCA dealer network.
Yes, all this.
As much as I’m attracted to the car, the red flags about the ownership experience are screaming.
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      05-27-2018, 09:58 AM   #5
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Consumer Reports has Alfas as the least reliable of all car makes in their latest survey. No way I would buy one. It is bad when Alfas are worse than Jeeps.
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      05-27-2018, 01:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
Consumer Reports has Alfas as the least reliable of all car makes in their latest survey. No way I would buy one. It is bad when Alfas are worse than Jeeps.
Fiat owns both alpha and Jeep (Chrysler) right?
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      05-27-2018, 04:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Fiat owns both alpha and Jeep (Chrysler) right?
Yes and Fiat’s reliability is one above Alfa’s. (Second to last).
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      05-27-2018, 10:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
Consumer Reports has Alfas as the least reliable of all car makes in their latest survey. No way I would buy one. It is bad when Alfas are worse than Jeeps.
Have you ever looked at or filled out one of those CR surveys on which the "data" they publish is based? I would not put any credence at all in CR ratings of vehicle reliability.

That having been said, I might consider renting an Italian car in Europe on vacation, as long as the rental came with free roadside assistance and towing.

Italy produces high quality handmade leather goods. The only mechanical thing that I would buy coming out of Italy would be a commercial espresso machine or grinder.
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      05-28-2018, 06:50 AM   #9
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I actually think the QV is a good looking car, I would have expected its performance numbers to be better against the M2 since it has 500hp. I think a couple cosmetic changes and small suspension drop and the car hits it out of the park. Now as for the performance..... it does not beat the M2 on the track but the majority of M2's are not track driven so as far as back roads and DD I bet it is fantastic. I love the M2 but if I needed another car in its place and could afford the up charge I would look at one.

Oh my wife had a Fiat 500c for two years and had not one problem..... just say'n
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      05-28-2018, 11:16 AM   #10
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I'd buy one used.. that was a late model year with most of the electronic issues fixed
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      05-29-2018, 09:07 AM   #11
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I can't talk about the customer service in the US. But I am still waiting for an appointment to "see" the QV and getting a phone call back from the sales agent. I am in Germany btw. They dont have a car to test drive in the near surroundings and they told me that they only allow test drives with a sales rep on the passenger side - WTF? I dont wanna buy a Pagani or a Bugatti for god's sake.

So being unreliable starts with their sales team and network - maybe the car is just fine and lovely, but their customer service really pisses me off.
Same with Abarth. I wanted to lease a new 595 Competizione as a daily driver and the customer service was horrible and they never got back to me after discussing a test drive.

If you email a Porsche dealer, they will call you twice a day to schedule an appointment with you and give you the car for the whole weekend because they know how to treat their customers.

I'm done with FCA...
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      05-29-2018, 10:02 AM   #12
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As the owner of an Italian motorcycle who is currently missing amazing riding weather while he waits 3 weeks for a clutch cable to come from Italy, I may be a bit biased...

When the bike runs well it's the most amazing thing in the world. When I need service or parts it's a freakin' nightmare.

My advice to you is to NOT get the Alfa if you need to rely on the Alfa. If you have a daily driver that you are perfectly happy to roll around in while you wait on parts or service, get the Alfa. Dump it the moment is goes out of warranty and plan for at least 50% depreciation. If you are cool with all those constraints, get the Alfa. It will get your heart racing and move you like no BMW product ever can. If you find yourself trying to apply practical or logical reasoning as to why you need the Alfa, stop. If you buy the Alfa buy it based on emotion. Throw caution and logic away and embrace the ridiculous purchase, but have a plan in the back of your head to account for downtime, hassle, and cost. No amount of logic or reason can balance out the pending downtime, hassle, and cost; only passion can. If you are a person who needs to rationalize a purchase and find value and practicality in it, run as fast as you can from the Alfa.
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      05-30-2018, 09:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwares View Post
I just get the feeling that's a car you want a one-nighter with, but you don't want to put a ring on her finger.
That's such a great quote. Spot on!
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      05-30-2018, 04:34 PM   #14
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Good points.....the M2 is a reliable marriage
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      07-05-2018, 06:09 PM   #15
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I was deciding between those two cars as well. Got the M2 and loving it!
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      08-08-2018, 11:26 PM   #16
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I'm deciding between these two cars right now... Alfa qv is better in every single imaginable way... but yes reliability and residual value is my main concern!
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      08-14-2018, 10:21 PM   #17
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I didn't know about this car until after I had my M2. I saw one at an auto show this year( don't remember which of the three models it was). It looked really nice and I was impressed with the design of it. I didn't know about the reliability issues and dealer network, and you guys analogies are funny.
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      08-14-2018, 11:10 PM   #18
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Having owned way too many cars in my lifetime, I really gave the Gulia QV a very serious look. It has everything exotics have at a price point where someone could easily be tempted.

The looks are somewhat polarizing. You either like it or not. I think it screams pure Italian sexy. My wife, not so much. Thinks it ugly. Her words.

It has a boatload of equipment standard. And the 19' model run is rumored to have AWD and HP bump. Most of the reviews are favorable. I watched and read more than I should have. There are screaming deals on Alfa's to be had. One I was working $15K off MSRP. And there lies the rub. Deep discounts because they cannot move the product.

They are sitting. Still 17 models with no miles on them across the country. The sound of the Ferrari derived TT V6 is intoxicating. Big Brembo's, CF drive shaft and all other bits. They did a great job with this car. But!

I did not like the egress, the B pillar is in the most peculiar place. It blocks your vision. Makes getting into and out of the car a planning session. The steering is good but not as connected as European competitors. Interior has lots of hard plastic.

Weighing all of the factors and my use of the vehicle, I went with the M2. The reliability, responsiveness towards issues, electrical gremlins and resale/asset value determined my choice. I spent many hours on the Alfa forums reading about all of the brand issues. It is across the board.

They will get it sorted out. It is their reentry into the market. Growing pains, new personnel not familiar with the product etc that are holding them back and FCA customer assistance appears to be somewhat lacking.

I am glad I chose the M2. No regrets. Alpha, a great car not quite ready for prime time.
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      10-11-2018, 09:31 PM   #19
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I am test driving one on Saturday. I have to say, I am a bit smitten and I think it is a beautiful car even if the interior is late model Mazda looking.

My last BMW that I purchased new left me with a bad taste in my mouth. As mentioned, there are discounts to be had which puts pricing close to the M2C but with four doors which help with a baby seat. I know, the M3 has four doors but it does no stir my soul in the same way. I guess I like curves. I was going for a 991 but decided that the rear was too cramped for my needs.

I will report back...
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      10-12-2018, 05:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $M2 View Post
The looks are somewhat polarizing. You either like it or not. I think it screams pure Italian sexy. My wife, not so much.
I don't think I read those sentences as they were intended the first time

Last edited by Peasley; 10-12-2018 at 06:03 AM..
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      03-27-2019, 01:31 PM   #21
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Traded in my M2 for a QV yesterday. Wish me luck!

Weather is still cold here, was on stock Corza tires so I didn't push it. One thing that I do not miss from the M is the seat. Will chime in more when I put on more miles.
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      03-28-2019, 10:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Si View Post
Traded in my M2 for a QV yesterday. Wish me luck!

Weather is still cold here, was on stock Corza tires so I didn't push it. One thing that I do not miss from the M is the seat. Will chime in more when I put on more miles.
QV has a fantastic exhaust note from factory but exhaust flap doesn't open in any mode outside of dynamic(race) mode. Maybe consider the akrapovic so sound improves and valve is controllable.

QV is a 100% better driver's car. Last summer when I had my track day at Shanghai F1 circuit, Alfa Romeo China was doing the QV track test there. I took the opportunity to try the QV a little bit. One thing I can tell the sec I got seated and hold the steering wheel is that this Alfa instantly feel a FAR better driver's car than any M.
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