[fullstack]

Originally Posted by bobert

The N55 in the 2016-18 M2 has a fair number of modifications over every previous iteration - at some point, BMW makes enough modifications that they decide to stick an 'S' designation on it.

It’s like 2-3 and all changes are for longetivity under higher boost from a software remap of the dme.

[fullstack]

Originally Posted by champignon

BMW has built some great engines over the decades; not all were designated as "M" engines, and not all engines designated "M" were great engines.

And the concept of how much power, or HP, an engine generally, or an "M" engine specifically, should have, has widely varied over the decades, generally increasing, but who knows where that will end up as emissions and other restrictions become more and more important?

The M2 is a street car that can be tracked. The overwhelming majority of owners will never track the car, nor stress the engine beyond 75%, tops, of its capabilities. Most people will just drive it, and beyond the occasional spirited passing, the car's current capacity will remain only in reserve. But it is nice to know its there.

Here’s an analogy:

Rocket ships have become commercialized so now a people are now using them to fly across the globe in a matter of hours. Theres a rocket with a purpose built rocket engine that you can pay x amount of dollars and it’ll get you across the globe in 2.5 hours. To make a cheaper alternative, the engineers took a regular plane engine and put it into a rocket and boosted the engine and updated a few internals so it wont wear out as fast under the higher boost and it can get you across the globe in 3 hours.

I dont think the s55 is perfect but an engine should be consider d for what it is.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict

Here’s an analogy:

Rocket ships have become commercialized so now a people are now using them to fly across the globe in a matter of hours. Theres a rocket with a purpose built rocket engine that you can pay x amount of dollars and it’ll get you across the globe in 2.5 hours. To make a cheaper alternative, the engineers took a regular plane engine and put it into a rocket and boosted the engine and updated a few internals so it wont wear out as fast under the higher boost and it can get you across the globe in 3 hours.

I dont think the s55 is perfect but an engine should be consider d for what it is.

There are all sorts of analogies; you assume that there is some group of geniuses sitting around a table who conceive of these things in a vacuum. No specific M car, all of which are relatively low production, can support the development costs of a purpose built M engine. There is an evolutionary path and these things are modified to meet a supposed need for a specific car.

It's beyond ridiculous to think that this group of geniuses made this wonderful S55 engine in a vacuum for a couple of M cars; no way is that even remotely financially feasible.

All of this M-Engine stuff is really a bunch of pretentious horseshit.

[fullstack]

Originally Posted by champignon

There are all sorts of analogies; you assume that there is some group of geniuses sitting around a table who conceive of these things in a vacuum. No specific M car, all of which are relatively low production, can support the development costs of a purpose built M engine. There is an evolutionary path and these things are modified to meet a supposed need for a specific car.

It's beyond ridiculous to think that this group of geniuses made this wonderful S55 engine in a vacuum for a couple of M cars; no way is that even remotely financially feasible.

All of this M-Engine stuff is really a bunch of pretentious horseshit.

Ok maybe my analogy is over the top but i was just trying to exaggerate to make my point clearer and i definitely didn't want to subscribe to the m snobbery that is prevalent on the internet. The only reason that I'm still interested in bmw is because of what started with the n55 in the 135is. All of a sudden bmw had a fun car again ..engine be damned. However, with that said, i fully believe there is a substantial difference between an engine built from the ground up and an engine tweaked by the m division. It’s obvious M GmbH cannot be self sustaining but Just because they are financially backed by the sales of regular cars doesn't mean they are innovation backed by the engineering of regular cars. Sure it works from controlled internal combustion but from an engineering standpoint there are differences between a purpose built design and a design to engineer something to work for a different application. The latter will be full of work-arounds ..no way around it. The work arounds work so most people don't care but people who can appreciate engineering tech will appreciate the advantages the s55 brings.

[Rupes]

Just finished reading the posts in this thread. I think every car ever produced was compared against the current M2 except for the M2 comp. Ok, thats hyperbole, but I have an opinion I'd like to share...

I think BMW does a great job of building excitement. I don't have any real desire for a different car (hell, I just bought this one) but am intrigued by the M2 comp. it will likely be rarer, rawer, and faster than the current model. These are all reasons why we bought the M2 in the first place, right? They've taken a successful formula, and improved on it.

The new car will not be for everyone, but you better believe current M2 owners are prime candidates.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict

Ok maybe my analogy is over the top but i was just trying to exaggerate to make my point clearer and i definitely didn't want to subscribe to the m snobbery that is prevalent on the internet. The only reason that I'm still interested in bmw is because of what started with the n55 in the 135is. All of a sudden bmw had a fun car again ..engine be damned. However, with that said, i fully believe there is a substantial difference between an engine built from the ground up and an engine tweaked by the m division. It’s obvious M GmbH cannot be self sustaining but Just because they are financially backed by the sales of regular cars doesn't mean they are innovation backed by the engineering of regular cars. Sure it works from controlled internal combustion but from an engineering standpoint there are differences between a purpose built design and a design to engineer something to work for a different application. The latter will be full of work-arounds ..no way around it. The work arounds work so most people don't care but people who can appreciate engineering tech will appreciate the advantages the s55 brings.

I have a 135is Convertible, which I just drove 155 miles through the mountains yesterday. Of course, the N55 was in the 135i also, not just the "is" but has the PPK flash and an extra cooler on the "is."

Aside from the fact that it is a convertible, I find this car about as fun to drive as my new M2.

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by stefan

That's my plan. Nothing special about the S55.. it'll be a forgotten M motor. So I'm just skipping that update and will queue up for the next M2 iteration.

I'm hoping for a '20/'21 M2 CS.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

I'm hoping for a '20/'21 M2 CS.

FWD and with no MT option

[chris719]

Originally Posted by stefan

That's my plan. Nothing special about the S55.. it'll be a forgotten M motor. So I'm just skipping that update and will queue up for the next M2 iteration.

There will be no special M engines ever again. They are all going to be closer to series derivatives like S63 and S55 are. You won't see S54, S65, or S85 again. Maybe that's a good thing because M GmbH messed up on bearing design on all 3 of those engines and they fail at rates unheard of for N engines.

However, they are still undoubtedly better than the N series engines.

[chrisw27]

An m2 with fbo mods + pure stg 2 turbos would be significantly faster than the m2 comp, and arguably sound better too...
10K (at least) for the above seems more than sufficient.
Either way, im only rocking an '11 135i, so i would envy making such a decision

[stefan]

Originally Posted by chris719

There will be no special M engines ever again. They are all going to be closer to series derivatives like S63 and S55 are. You won't see S54, S65, or S85 again. Maybe that's a good thing because M GmbH messed up on bearing design on all 3 of those engines and they fail at rates unheard of for N engines.

However, they are still undoubtedly better than the N series engines.

lol. you've spent too much time on forums. unless of course you have data of those "unheard of" failure rates

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by ShelJW

I just picked up my 2018 M2 yesterday.

Both my salesman and the finance guy, separately, told me that they didn't have any definitive information on the pricing of the M2 Competition, but both predicted it'd be between $7-8,000 over the current M2.

They both also felt it'll be hard to get one the first year or so. They seem to think allocations will be fewer compared to current allocations on the M2.

For what it's worth...

headline news. your sales guy at a bmw dealership and finance guy gave you the information. very reliable

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by chrisw27

An m2 with fbo mods + pure stg 2 turbos would be significantly faster than the m2 comp, and arguably sound better too...
10K (at least) for the above seems more than sufficient.
Either way, im only rocking an '11 135i, so i would envy making such a decision

The Comp has a 45 HP advantage over the base which can be nullified by a simple stage 1 tune. A PS2 setup will rape a stock Competition. That said, a PS2 setup on an S55 Competition will be bonkers.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by stefan

lol. you've spent too much time on forums. unless of course you have data of those "unheard of" failure rates

Maybe not so much for S54, but clearly S65 and S85... There is pretty strong evidence. Choose to believe what you will.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by chris719

Maybe not so much for S54, but clearly S65 and S85... There is pretty strong evidence. Choose to believe what you will.

So.. no data huh? Just forum anecdotes which aren't remotely indicative of the complete sample? Believe what you will.

For what it's worth I do agree with you that the glory days of M motors are behind us. For economies of scale I am surprised all new models aren't built as M motors then simply detuned for series models.

[Who?]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

The Comp has a 45 HP advantage over the base which can be nullified by a simple stage 1 tune. A PS2 setup will rape a stock Competition. That said, a PS2 setup on an S55 Competition will be bonkers.

stage 1 s55, and youre back to square one..

[chris719]

Originally Posted by stefan

So.. no data huh? Just forum anecdotes which aren't remotely indicative of the complete sample? Believe what you will.

For what it's worth I do agree with you that the glory days of M motors are behind us. For economies of scale I am surprised all new models aren't built as M motors then simply detuned for series models.

There is at least one law firm pursuing it. Even if we only have anecdotal evidence, there are far more posts about blown S85 and S65 motors between here and M5board vs the number of blown N54s and N55s on the same forums. This should be a giant red flag for you because the number of N54 and N55s BMW has sold absolutely dwarfs the number of S65 and S85 sold.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about it here in this forum especially.

BMW is doing finite element analysis and other advanced simulation techniques these days that let them cost optimize every piece of the engine. They know what are the most stressed and marginal components and so they know precisely what to target when building an S variant. I am sure they do have maximum power output targets in mind for the architecture before they start.

[reppucci]

Originally Posted by champignon

BMW has built some great engines over the decades; not all were designated as "M" engines, and not all engines designated "M" were great engines.....

^^^This..... the M50-52 and the US version S50-52 (bored out M50-52 motors) as an example. They run forever and oodles of low end torque! (for a NA petrol engine)

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by ruderegime

Now I have this cross shopping bug
2018 BMW M2
2018 CHEVROLET Corvette
2018 AUDI RS3
2018 FORD Mustang 350GT
The Camaro ZL1 and the Corvette Grand Sport and the 350GTR are all starting to get out of my price range. Unless I get a killer deal, so I'm trying to stay right around $55,000

I would get the M2 unless you need a 4 door sedan or quattro, in this case I'd buy the RS3.

[SeanWRT]

M2 N55 PS2 will be close to S55 stock turbo on pump gas, both of them tuned.

On meth and ethanol, S55 will walk away again.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by chrisw27

An m2 with fbo mods + pure stg 2 turbos would be significantly faster than the m2 comp, and arguably sound better too...
10K (at least) for the above seems more than sufficient.
Either way, im only rocking an '11 135i, so i would envy making such a decision

So you put downpipes and a good tune on the S55 for under 1k and say bye bye to the N55 again.

[Aapparition90]

any m3/4 owner will know that the m2 is going to be absolutely ballistic ingear with the s55s potential. Theres no reason it cant at least have M3 CS level power with a simple software flash if not much has changed internally. Anyway i liked the m2 for what it was not sure it needed bad sounding engine and more power and more weight but lets see, easy to speculate using a keyboard lol.