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      03-21-2017, 12:22 PM   #67
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To me they really couldn't be more different. they look noticeably different. you can tell in a second which is which. they sound different, drive different and if we are talking about driving the M2 does everything better as it should. does anyone really care about who wins in a highway pull from 150km/h? thats ridiculous. The M2 is an M car and the 240is as it should be called is a great little 2 door coupe from bmw but it's made for a DD, it's meant for the commute downtown and getting groceries while offering a fun, powerful and pleasant driving experience. The M2 is a beast and is a track ready street car. it will do all of the above but it's not in its natural habitat.

Did people compare the 1M with the 1 series in this way??
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      03-21-2017, 12:27 PM   #68
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I mean, the comparison becomes a bit more valid when you admit that a very large percentage of M2s never spend any time at the track, at all, and are simply used for commuting downtown and getting groceries. Or that most owner's idea of "performance driving", is indeed just mashing the throttle when getting on the highway.
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      03-21-2017, 12:34 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quikM2 View Post
To me they really couldn't be more different. they look noticeably different. you can tell in a second which is which. they sound different, drive different and if we are talking about driving the M2 does everything better as it should. does anyone really care about who wins in a highway pull from 150km/h? thats ridiculous. The M2 is an M car and the 240is as it should be called is a great little 2 door coupe from bmw but it's made for a DD, it's meant for the commute downtown and getting groceries while offering a fun, powerful and pleasant driving experience. The M2 is a beast and is a track ready street car. it will do all of the above but it's not in its natural habitat.

Did people compare the 1M with the 1 series in this way??
No one is saying they are similar.

The fact that the gap in speed between the two is this small does however raise an eyebrow or two. Questionable choice in strategy from BMW imo.

The 1M had higher tuning potential than the 135. With the M2 it's the other way around which really adds to the frustration.
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      03-21-2017, 12:35 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by lop00 View Post

The 1M had higher tuning potential than the 135. With the M2 it's the other way around which really adds to the frustration.
Well, that's only because they took the 1M motor out of the 135 the year they released it. Had they left the N54 in it, they'd have the identical engine sans tune.

But I guess that's your point.
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      03-21-2017, 12:35 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lop00 View Post
No one is saying they are similar.

The fact that the gap in speed between the two is this small does however raise an eyebrow or two. Questionable choice in strategy from BMW imo.

The 1M had higher tuning potential than the 135. With the M2 it's the other way around which really adds to the frustration.
Why is everyone so obsessed with straight line speed?

Sure the 240i could accelerate almost as fast, but the moment it hits a hard turn it'll have to slow down to half of the speed of the M2.

So then you have to ask: which speed? Straight line? Mid-turn? Exiting a turn? Each will give a different answer.
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      03-21-2017, 12:37 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by gmzanatta View Post
Sure the 240i could accelerate almost as fast, but the moment it hits a hard turn it'll have to slow down to half of the speed of the M2.
Double? Was that a joke or do you really not know any better?

Depending on the radius, the mid-corner speed would only be a few MPH different between the two cars.

C&D pulled .99 in their M2 around a 300 ft skidpad, their M240 pulled .94. That's a 5% improvement.
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      03-21-2017, 12:38 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Why say such a silly thing. The mid-corner speed would only be a few MPH different, at best. Which adds up around a track...

But double? Was that a joke, or do you really not know any better?
Hyperbole to make a point.
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      03-21-2017, 12:39 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lop00 View Post
No one is saying they are similar.

The fact that the gap in speed between the two is this small does however raise an eyebrow or two. Questionable choice in strategy from BMW imo.

The 1M had higher tuning potential than the 135. With the M2 it's the other way around which really adds to the frustration.
I think you and I are not saying they are similar but there are definitely a lot of people above trying. At least I get that sense.

But as to the tuning potential I think it might be deliberate. the M2 already beat the M4 around the streets of willow. that is a huge issue for protecting the m3/m4 sales. i believe the smaller turbo and no headroom tuning wise was a deliberate choice. The problem was they have so many cars in their lineup and the m235i has to compete within its class and thats the S3 and cla45 and everybody was already putting down 300hp as a base number. puts bmw in a tough position trying to create perceivable gap between the cars which is why they underrate their numbers from factory. the m2 has more than 365 just like the m240 has more than the 330 or whatever it has. anyway just my thoughts as I have no idea for sure.
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      03-21-2017, 12:41 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
I mean, the comparison becomes a bit more valid when you admit that a very large percentage of M2s never spend any time at the track, at all, and are simply used for commuting downtown and getting groceries. Or that most owner's idea of "performance driving", is indeed just mashing the throttle when getting on the highway.
Sad but very true my friend
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      03-21-2017, 12:46 PM   #76
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gmzanatta Although I'd call it marginal difference I do admit the M240i suffers from body roll. Big difference with the M2.

quikM2 Eh, I don't understand this whole discussion of the M2 being limited to not enter M4 territory. The M3/M4 is a complete different car. You get an M3/M4 for comfort, luxury and performance. The M2 is mainly for performance with DD capability.
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      03-21-2017, 12:53 PM   #77
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I mean, it's not exactly a completely different car.

The suspension/steering/drivetrain is a direct carry-over from the M3/4, and the underlying 2 series chassis is simply a shortened version of the M3/4s, afaik. They weigh right on top of one another as well.

What's completely different about them? That the M4 is longer? Or that you can get nicer leather?

As far as the rolling chassis is concerned, they're actually very similar cars.

Certainly with the S55 in it, the M2 would cannibalize at least some M4 sales...and I tend to think a lot of M4 sales.
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      03-21-2017, 01:12 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangofreshh View Post
Why is your opinion saying its junk?
It adds zero value.

- Navigation? Not needed, built in with RTTI and route learning.
- Music? Itunes & Spotify supported native, not needed.
- Common UI? No.
- Better UI? No.
- £300 extra? yes.
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      03-21-2017, 01:22 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
I mean, it's not exactly a completely different car.

The suspension/steering/drivetrain is a direct carry-over from the M3/4, and the underlying 2 series chassis is simply a shortened version of the M3/4s, afaik. They weigh right on top of one another as well.

What's completely different about them? That the M4 is longer? Or that you can get nicer leather?

As far as the rolling chassis is concerned, they're actually very similar cars.

Certainly with the S55 in it, the M2 would cannibalize at least some M4 sales...and I tend to think a lot of M4 sales.
- Better Seats
- Better Leather
- Hologram Display
- Adaptive Suspensions
- M-Package delimit to 290+
- S55 Engine
- Ceramic Brake Option
- 4 doors if M3
- M4 more backroom space, more comfortable for extra passengers
- Interior Trim Options
- M-Style Mirrors

I wouldn't say they are that similar either
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      03-21-2017, 01:29 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DivideBYZero View Post
It adds zero value.

- Navigation? Not needed, built in with RTTI and route learning.
- Music? Itunes & Spotify supported native, not needed.
- Common UI? No.
- Better UI? No.
- £300 extra? yes.
Honestly, I don't think you are using it to its full potential. Music UI for itunes, spotify and pandora is better on the carplay. Not 1000% better but definitely better.

Navigation, you have to use it in conjunction with other apps & software with your phone and it becomes seamless. For an example: (btw this example is quite common) You are looking for a restaurant on yelp. You finally select the restaurant, venue or bar you want to go to, you click the directions on the yelp app. The directions pop up on your phone and it automatically shows up on the bmw screen. All you do is hit "GO" and you are done. This is much more seamless and faster than copying the directions from your phone to the bmw nav or using the voice commands.

Very well worth $300 for something that is seamless for everyday use imo.

Kind of reminds me of when garmin was "enough" then started getting replaced by factory navigation.
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      03-21-2017, 02:40 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lop00 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by m34m View Post
And seriously ugly and uninspiring. Mustangs are fast too. So what?

I have M405 Wheels and body painted diffuser & mirrors on the M240i.

Sure, it's not M2 pretty but it sure as hell ain't ugly.

I own both. the M240i feels faster over 150km/h.

Do I lose sleep over this? No.

Have a look at what it does from 100-220km/h Sport+, Almost full tank https://streamable.com/a9k1u
Are those supposed to be serious metrics? Over 150km/h? How many people would care about such an obscure and useless high speed stat? Even on most tracks that's irrelevant. None of this speaks to a car's fun factor or the emotion it stirs via its aesthetics, sound, overall performance and relative exclusivity. I don't care what litany of stats people roll out I would never buy a boring consumer grade skinny slab sided 2 series. Nor would I buy a Hellcat because it's "awesome" or it's stats or any similar car. I like sports cars. Real sports cars like the 718 even with the four banger. I chose the M2 and willingly sacrifice true sports car characteristics because the M2 gets close enough and adds practicality. Injecting a 2 series into this thinking is a time wasting joke.
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      03-21-2017, 03:16 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lop00 View Post
- Better Seats
- Better Leather
- Hologram Display
- Adaptive Suspensions
- M-Package delimit to 290+
- S55 Engine
- Ceramic Brake Option
- 4 doors if M3
- M4 more backroom space, more comfortable for extra passengers
- Interior Trim Options
- M-Style Mirrors

I wouldn't say they are that similar either
To me other than the S55 that is all just aesthetics. I know you are trying to differentiate and obviously totally entitled to that opinion as what else is this convo anyway but I have to disagree and would say PrematureApex points above hold a lot more weight when you consider wheel base, drivetrain, brakes. All the similarities are more 'car'. the points above are really just luxury items which the m4 is. there is a reason it costs up to $30k more than an M2 depending on options. the base 'car' we are talking about is strikingly similar in looks, feel, drive, components. they are both 2 door M coupes after all
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      03-21-2017, 03:32 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quikM2 View Post
To me other than the S55 that is all just aesthetics. I know you are trying to differentiate and obviously totally entitled to that opinion as what else is this convo anyway but I have to disagree and would say PrematureApex points above hold a lot more weight when you consider wheel base, drivetrain, brakes. All the similarities are more 'car'. the points above are really just luxury items which the m4 is. there is a reason it costs up to $30k more than an M2 depending on options. the base 'car' we are talking about is strikingly similar in looks, feel, drive, components. they are both 2 door M coupes after all
Have you ever driven an M4?

I have, extensively. Complete different experience than the M2.

But to each their own, let's agree to disagree.

m34m

Hey, I never said the m240i is more fun, better, sporty. I'm just pointing out that on that specific segment, the m240i feels like it pulls harder. No need to get pissy
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      03-21-2017, 05:19 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangofreshh View Post
Honestly, I don't think you are using it to its full potential. Music UI for itunes, spotify and pandora is better on the carplay. Not 1000% better but definitely better.

Navigation, you have to use it in conjunction with other apps & software with your phone and it becomes seamless. For an example: (btw this example is quite common) You are looking for a restaurant on yelp. You finally select the restaurant, venue or bar you want to go to, you click the directions on the yelp app. The directions pop up on your phone and it automatically shows up on the bmw screen. All you do is hit "GO" and you are done. This is much more seamless and faster than copying the directions from your phone to the bmw nav or using the voice commands.

Very well worth $300 for something that is seamless for everyday use imo.

Kind of reminds me of when garmin was "enough" then started getting replaced by factory navigation.
I disagree on the audio part. I can navigate my music quicker on iDrive than on the Spotify app.

As far as your one use case for nav, I can do that using connected drive, google search within the car or via concierge. With the latter I can do this while driving.

Tech isn't useful because it's new. It's useful if it has value, and CarPlay has no value. Nice try with the Luddite claim at the end of your post, but I work in tech, so I look at things in terms of value.

You are welcome to your view. You're welcome to enjoy CarPlay, but there is a reason not many people use it.
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      03-21-2017, 05:29 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lop00 View Post
Have you ever driven an M4?

I have, extensively. Complete different experience than the M2.

But to each their own, let's agree to disagree.
Yeah same, I have driven an m4 a number of times so do speak from experience and obviously one much different then yours. I can strip away all the luxury of the M4 and try to feel as much as I can. They are quite similar to me. the m4 feels heavier even though it's not. Less responsive etc. etc. and we don't need to debate any further as I think we expressed enough on this subject. For what it's worth though if they were offered equal pricing I would choose the M4. I'm not the crowd that would choose an M2 over it. Anyway - agree to disagree it is.
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      03-21-2017, 05:32 PM   #86
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If it were equal price between M2 & 4, I'd still pick the M2, if it was non comp. the OG M4 isn't as fun to drive and I'm not sold on the fix pack.
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      03-21-2017, 05:43 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DivideBYZero View Post
If it were equal price between M2 & 4, I'd still pick the M2, if it was non comp. the OG M4 isn't as fun to drive and I'm not sold on the fix pack.
I should have qualified that statement a bit more as depending on what kind of driving I did I would as you pick M2 over M4 even price being equal. I drive in a grid based system in my city. lots of stoplights and block type setups. No winding roads, no ups and downs. My commute is short. really nowhere to go unfortunately for a drive thats close. there are a few spots you can have some fun and turn but not much. If i had better pavement and winding open roads and hills the M2 would be my choice all day long. for stoplight to stoplight in traffic and highway trips the M4 wins in my opinion.

I go to the track once to twice a year and do a couple autocross events. M2 wins my pick easily for both those things. I guess thats why I have an M2 ... it's also $25k less for what I think is a very similar car.
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      03-21-2017, 05:46 PM   #88
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I drive the M4 on track at Brands Hatch back to back with M235, M5 & M6. Stand out car on track? The M235... on road? M6. The M4 was a pig.
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