[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I think we may see this on the M4 GTS or M2 "Further Progress".

Almost seems like the "real" M2 everyone is wanting will actually be this "further progress." Wonder what we're gonna get with the regular M2.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I think we may see this on the M4 GTS or M2 "Further Progress".

Can we get a hint on when the first teaser may come?

[Hazey82]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

Almost seems like the "real" M2 everyone is wanting will actually be this "further progress." Wonder what we're gonna get with the regular M2.

This would utterly p!$$ me off If the M2 I got was a half baked version superseded by a proper M2 with CF roof, S motor, more colours etc. If I'm going to give up my E46 M3 and stretch myself financially on my first new BMW M car, I want the confidence it will be the best it could have been and not superseded by a better version of it soon after. If that's going to be the case I will walk away from the M2 and get the M4/M3 now and be done with the torture.

Surely this is not BMW's strategy to do that to their enthusiast audience.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by Hazey82

This would utterly p!$$ me off If the M2 I got was a half baked version superseded by a proper M2 with CF roof, S motor, more colours etc. If I'm going to give up my E46 M3 and stretch myself financially on my first new BMW M car, I want the confidence it will be the best it could have been and not superseded by a better version of it soon after. If that's going to be the case I will walk away from the M2 and get the M4/M3 now and be done with the torture.

Surely this is not BMW's strategy to do that to their enthusiast audience.

I mean that special m2 will cost much more, there's a Cayman GTS and a Cayman GT4, I don't see any problem

[esp42089]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

I mean that special m2 will cost much more, there's a Cayman GTS and a Cayman GT4, I don't see any problem

Exactly.

Hazey82, are you upset that you have the half baked E46 M3? I mean the CSL is the real deal isn't it?

[Hazey82]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

I mean that special m2 will cost much more, there's a Cayman GTS and a Cayman GT4, I don't see any problem

I see your point and it can't be too much more as it would need to fall under the M4/M3 price and who wants a Cayman GTS now that the GT4 is there. Porsche finally have done what the Cayman needed all along.

BMW is in similar boat and understand they need to get back to the smaller drivers car but I just wish they gave the M2 an S engine, CF roof etc. If they then released a comp package or GTS version which was more track focused with more power and lighter weight I most likely wouldn't care as the std M2 wasn't a half a$$ed version

SCOTT26 please take the above comments to BMW head quarters as I think that's a great strategy Joke

[Hazey82]

Originally Posted by esp42089

Exactly.

Hazey82, are you upset that you have the half baked E46 M3? I mean the CSL is the real deal isn't it?

True True, put it this way, I have CSL wheels and wished I had CSL seats etc etc.
Looking at current M4 is a good example. what more can they do in the GTS version? Make it lighter, Wider wheels? If I had the M4 and the GTS came out I wouldnt feel so hard done by because Ive got a) an M engine b) CF roof as Std and c) Great Seats

If the M4 didnt come with all that std then I'd be wanting the real deal

[esp42089]

Yeah, my big thing is I want the steering to feel right. I haven't driven the M3 or M4, but the 2 I drove was pretty bad. Very accurate but dead. The 328d loaner I had was the same. I'll forgive everything if the steering feels right. Not hydraulic feeling necessarily but it has to talk to me before I'm thrashing on it because I can't afford the tickets that come with thrashing on a modern car.

I'm pretty happy with the N55 when it's been tuned to not fall off on top. I suspect that is exactly what the M division will do to it. Not a problem for me at all. Especially if this means that maintenance is cheaper. I've loved my E36 M3's dead reliable engine.

I'm not a fan of the CF roof. It saves something like 25pounds over a STEEL equivalent and costs a lot more to make. I'd much prefer they shave that weight in more economical and impacting ways, like unsprung weight.

To my mind, great seats are lightweight manual seats that hold me in and can go all the way down to the floor. I'm a tall guy and most modern BMW cars, with the seat all the way down, put my eye-level at the sun visor and my hair brushing the headliner. My M3 has fixed back seats bolted to the floor to give me head room and the X3 was the best surprise I've ever had. Fits me wonderfully, and all I gave up was being low to the ground.

[Anderw]

Originally Posted by cSurf

Frankly, I'm surprised so many are focused on power. That's literally the thing I'm least concerned about with this car. I'd rather it be down on HP vs. the M235i with much better throttle response and vastly better cooling.

I have to agree with you partially but disagree at the same time, I feel the focus on power is warranted to an extent, as it seems to be bmws marketing is purposely distancing the m2 from m3/4. The m2s major important differences over an m235i to me are going to be the exterior styling which will make the car more functional on the track being able to house wider wheels/tires for much needed grip, Another important aspect is going to be A true "M" drivetrain / suspension with a M LSD, DTC and suspension. Weight will likely be the deciding factory in this equation between m2 vs m4.

Throttle response in the m235i is impressive for a turbo car and I have yet to hear of any over heating issues if at all, since in the m235i it has been upgraded from non M n55s. Thats where I disagree since much better throttle response and Vastly better cooling may be an over statement.

The m2 will be a great car, I am excited to the pricing as that will most likely be the deciding factor on weather I sell my m235i for a m2 or a m3/m4. Unless the m2 is so great that it is worth close to the same amount as an s55 powered car

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I think we may see this on the M4 GTS or M2 "Further Progress".

Will the more focused model make it to the U.S. this time?

[PackPride85]

If this car is as fun to drive as a 1M, and easier to get, I don't see many being disappointed with their purchase. I sure won't. I'd still buy a brand new 1M if they were still being made.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by Hazey82

I see your point and it can't be too much more as it would need to fall under the M4/M3 price and who wants a Cayman GTS now that the GT4 is there. Porsche finally have done what the Cayman needed all along.

BMW is in similar boat and understand they need to get back to the smaller drivers car but I just wish they gave the M2 an S engine, CF roof etc. If they then released a comp package or GTS version which was more track focused with more power and lighter weight I most likely wouldn't care as the std M2 wasn't a half a$$ed version

Scott please take the above comments to BMW head quarters as I think that's a great strategy Joke

Don't forget that the M3 GTS, CRT, and CSL were hugely expensive M3s. If the hardcore M2 version is sold in extremely limited quantities, it could cost more than an M3.

The M3 GTS was more than an M5 at the time, I remember people saying it was crazy to spend 911 GT3 money on an M3 but it still sold out its production run.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

Will the more focused model make it to the U.S. this time?

This is the big question for me...
It seems pretty clear that this car will be built, but it's of little relevance for most of us here if it won't be available in the US.
It's true that previous GTS/CSL M3s have been drastically more expensive for very little, but I'm hoping that this formula is refined a bit this time around.... they can hold off on the roll cage and race seats, and just give us track-worthy weight savings, and maybe some more aggressive engine tuning (I don't care about more overall HP, but rather faster throttle response, more revs/high-rev power, beefed-up cooling, etc.) If the price premium is not ridiculous, there's no question that MANY of us will be interested. But if it's already known that this will not be US-bound, then those of us interested in an M2 would really like to know ASAP.

SCOTT26, can you shed any light on this question?

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...=978175&page=6

Obviously, if the M guys start fiddling with stuff, the motor is capable of much more - look at the S55. But the S55 shares <15% or whatever with the original N55 (two turbos instead of one being the most obvious difference).

NO, The S55 share 75% with the N55. Only 25% are new developments. BIG difference. The M2 N55 will probably be about 10% different since it doesnt change enough in BMW's opinion to warrant a separate engine code.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

I mean that special m2 will cost much more, there's a Cayman GTS and a Cayman GT4, I don't see any problem

Agreed- I support this approach.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

NO, The S55 share 75% with the N55. Only 25% are new developments. BIG difference. The M2 N55 will probably be about 10% different since it doesnt change enough in BMW's opinion to warrant a separate engine code.

What are the % relating to? Weight?

I thought that everything that moves, charges or cools air in the S55 (i.e. all the important stuff) is different?

[DVC]

Originally Posted by lsmkr01

NO, The S55 share 75% with the N55. Only 25% are new developments. BIG difference. The M2 N55 will probably be about 10% different since it doesnt change enough in BMW's opinion to warrant a separate engine code.

I was wondering about this... BMW call the F8x engine the S55, but it's not exactly a bespoke engine. I'd be curious if the amount of "difference" from the N55 is really only about 25%. If that's the case, then a re-worked N55 in the M2 is really not such a detraction at all. (Actually, this is my opinion already.)

[technik330]

The only real question that I have is to what extent will the "further progress" actually differentiate a standard M2 from said model?

I have a feeling the M2 crowd could swerve in to the M3 Honda Civic Days again - Ah bro, you've only got a standard M2? Weak sauce.

[lsmkr01]

Originally Posted by DVC

I was wondering about this... BMW call the F8x engine the S55, but it's not exactly a bespoke engine. I'd be curious if the amount of "difference" from the N55 is really only about 25%. If that's the case, then a re-worked N55 in the M2 is really not such a detraction at all. (Actually, this is my opinion already.)

The difference really is only 25%. Its printed right on the BMWs Technical Training & Product Information Document for S55 (I have PDF version).

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by technik330

The only real question that I have is to what extent will the "further progress" actually differentiate a standard M2 from said model?

Originally Posted by Adem1534

I mean that special m2 will cost much more, there's a Cayman GTS and a Cayman GT4, I don't see any problem

I can imagine that some Porsche Cayman GTS owners have mixed "if only I would have known" emotions about the introduction of the Cayman GT4 less than a year after the introduction of the Cayman GTS:

• Porsche press release of March 19, 2014: introduction of the Boxster GTS and Cayman GTS models
  http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=853
  http://press.porsche.com/news/pdf/20...Cayman-GTS.pdf
• Porsche press release of February 3, 2015: introduction of the Cayman GT4 model
  http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=905
  http://press.porsche.com/news/pdf/20...Cayman-GT4.pdf

No info as regards the introduction timing of the "hardcore" M2 (GTS/CSL/CRT). The M4 GTS is scheduled for release this year. So, who knows, maybe the hardcore M2 is released in 2016, as one of the headliners of the 100th BMW anniversary celebrations ?

Anyway, in the end it might be comparing apples (or should we say blueberry ? ) with oranges. If BMW M continues to toy with the GT6 Vision Concept as benchmark for the hardcore M2, we can guess that it will be a more Spartan (read: less weight), track-focused two-seater, virtually not suitable as daily driver and featuring an expensive price-tag (deep into M3/M4 territory or even beyond). Quite a different world compared to the M2 base version.

For the record about the E92 M3 GTS: very limited production (± 150), street legal, orange body color only, M DCT only, no rear seats (roll bar + fire extinguisher), less weight for center console and door trim, titanium rear silencers, black 19-inch light alloy wheels (the 1M got the silver version), airco was optional, polycarbonate for the back window and rear side glass, no audio system, less sound insulation, CF seats with three-point seatbelts and six-point harnesses, etc. and a price-tag of approximately twice a regular E92 M3. Oh, and as BMW didn't want to go through the trouble of official certification: not made available for the US.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by Artemis

...
For the record about the E92 M3 GTS: very limited production (± 150), street legal, orange body color only, M DCT only, no rear seats (roll bar + fire extinguisher), less weight for center console and door trim, titanium rear silencers, black 19-inch light alloy wheels (the 1M got the silver version), airco was optional, polycarbonate for the back window and rear side glass, no audio system, less sound insulation, CF seats with three-point seatbelts and six-point harnesses, etc. and a price-tag of approximately twice a regular E92 M3. Oh, and as BMW didn't want to go through the trouble of official certification: not made available for the US.

Yeah, there has to be some middle ground between the standard Ms and the GTS/CSLs as they have previously been speced...
Double the price is ridiculous, but 5-10% more should be reasonable.
And for weight reduction, pass on the extreme stuff: e.g. roll cage, fire extinguisher, plastic windows, etc... And just go with less sound insulation (that stuff is heavy), less electronics options so a lighter wiring harness system, some additional aluminum/CF parts.
And if it's not going to be available in the US, then I would like to know sooner rather than later to avoid being really irritated at the 11th hour.

[W///]

Originally Posted by DVC

Yeah, there has to be some middle ground between the standard Ms and the GTS/CSLs as they have previously been speced...
Double the price is ridiculous, but 5-10% more should be reasonable.
And for weight reduction, pass on the extreme stuff: e.g. roll cage, fire extinguisher, plastic windows, etc... And just go with less sound insulation (that stuff is heavy), less electronics options so a lighter wiring harness system, some additional aluminum/CF parts.
And if it's not going to be available in the US, then I would like to know sooner rather than later to avoid being really irritated at the 11th hour.

I wouldn't hold my breath. There's been 0 evidence thus far that such a model would even make it to the US. It certainly wasn't in the VIN leak thread. Really, the only person that has talked about this car has been Scott.

Not to mention it would cost an arm and a leg. Plus CSL/GTS has historically only been offered with SMG or DCT, which would be a no go for me.