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      03-20-2017, 07:02 PM   #45
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Ideally:

DD = M240i + Adaptive Suspensions
DD + Snow = M240i + xDrive
Fun Car = M2 6-MT

On a side note owning both at the moment, I have to admit that the M240i is faster than the M2 from 150-258. Whether you folks like it or not, the tuned N55 is really not on the same level as the b58. The first is maxed out whilst the second has an insane amount of engine tuning potential.
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      03-20-2017, 07:39 PM   #46
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Well seems like nobody has bought this up before, in terms of depreciation......
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      03-20-2017, 11:16 PM   #47
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I've said this before but to me this isn't even a topic of discussion. The M228/M235/240i is a hideous looking car to me. It's skinny and slab sided absolutely disgusting looking to me. For those that want to tell me the M2 is based on this car save it. They may as well be entirely different models the M2 is good looking and muscular and in my eyes is a different car altogether.

The only reason we are having this discussion is BMW built the M2 out of the corporate parts bin. Why isn't this conversation had with the 340i vs M3? The reason is that the M3 while based on the 3 series platform features many bespoke elements that allow it to stand alone. No 3 series can touch it it's not even a discussion. The brilliance of BMW is that they are able to take a consumer grade platform and create a fantastic M car. This is all the more true with the M2 because it lacks bespoke elements and they still pulled off a cohesive car that wins accolades. They took an existing platform and went to the parts bin put it all together and made the thing work really well. It hangs with actual purpose built machines like the 718.

I wish they had included some unique bespoke elements to the M2 (beyond body panels) so annoying comparisons like this would not even occur.
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      03-21-2017, 12:18 AM   #48
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      03-21-2017, 12:37 AM   #49
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I tried to equip an M240I as close as possible to the same equipment that I ordered in the M2 that I ordered and the prices are $59.5K in the M2 and $61K for the M240I. Even still the M2 will have more HP, better brakes and suspension, a better transmission, and look so much better. I guess you can say that you are paying extra for the M240I name versus the M2 name?
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      03-21-2017, 02:33 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lop00 View Post
Ideally:

DD = M240i + Adaptive Suspensions
DD + Snow = M240i + xDrive
Fun Car = M2 6-MT

On a side note owning both at the moment, I have to admit that the M240i is faster than the M2 from 150-258. Whether you folks like it or not, the tuned N55 is really not on the same level as the b58. The first is maxed out whilst the second has an insane amount of engine tuning potential.
I wonder how the 0-150 would compare if the m240i had the AWD xdrive?
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      03-21-2017, 02:37 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2 Maybe View Post
I tried to equip an M240I as close as possible to the same equipment that I ordered in the M2 that I ordered and the prices are $59.5K in the M2 and $61K for the M240I. Even still the M2 will have more HP, better brakes and suspension, a better transmission, and look so much better. I guess you can say that you are paying extra for the M240I name versus the M2 name?
I think most people would be able to negotiate a lower price on the m240i so it would end up cheaper than the M2.
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      03-21-2017, 03:27 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmzanatta View Post
Brake application is called torque vectoring and has nothing to do with the diff (plus it's expensive!).

This is a whole different beast, where inside the eDiff you have clutch packs that can control wheel spin at each wheel very precisely. It can still torque vector like above in addition to the eDiff control.
Well said, though I would not actually call our electronical M diff an E Diff, because the E82 135i had something called an E Diff at that time and that was more kind of torque vectoring as I recall.

McLaren also make use of TV 'diffs'. I though Porsche too(?), some models.

Cheers
Robin
Yep, the P1 has an open differential
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      03-21-2017, 07:02 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
I wonder how the 0-150 would compare if the m240i had the AWD xdrive?
From what I've read and heard from the 2er forum, it's as quick as an M2 if not quicker.

But we are talking about drag speeds here, it's only one of the many qualities a performance car has. The M240i is a practical, fast and comfortable daily driver that you tend to buy if you don't want to get noticed.
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      03-21-2017, 07:11 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2 Maybe View Post
I tried to equip an M240I as close as possible to the same equipment that I ordered in the M2 that I ordered and the prices are $59.5K in the M2 and $61K for the M240I. Even still the M2 will have more HP, better brakes and suspension, a better transmission, and look so much better. I guess you can say that you are paying extra for the M240I name versus the M2 name?
I think most people would be able to negotiate a lower price on the m240i so it would end up cheaper than the M2.

Agree.. if one can't negotiate the price on a loaded M240 lower than an M2 ... one might want to consider a car buying service. ...
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      03-21-2017, 08:42 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lop00 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
I wonder how the 0-150 would compare if the m240i had the AWD xdrive?
From what I've read and heard from the 2er forum, it's as quick as an M2 if not quicker.

But we are talking about drag speeds here, it's only one of the many qualities a performance car has. The M240i is a practical, fast and comfortable daily driver that you tend to buy if you don't want to get noticed.
Don't overestimate 40i. To be fair, in stock form m2 is still slightly quicker in straight line from anywhere.

It'd be a whole different story when tuned though.
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      03-21-2017, 08:48 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Don't overestimate 40i. To be fair, in stock form m2 is still slightly quicker in straight line from anywhere.

It'd be a whole different story when tuned though.
And anything involving braking or turning would be a huge difference as well - the 235/240 really is all marketing...the body roll and bounciness of the suspension is really catered towards comfort. Not that it's a bad thing - just that BMW should call it what it is, a 235/240i.
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      03-21-2017, 09:30 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Don't overestimate 40i. To be fair, in stock form m2 is still slightly quicker in straight line from anywhere.

It'd be a whole different story when tuned though.
I recently drove the M240i for 1000km road-trip and had the opportunity to test it on the Autobahn... I'm not sure the M2 is quicker over 150km/h, the M240i is seriously fast
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      03-21-2017, 09:47 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
I think most people would be able to negotiate a lower price on the m240i so it would end up cheaper than the M2.
End up cheaper yes. But if you don't keep your car until it dies, is it a better value?

If you resell both the 240i and M2, you will probably end up losing more money on the 240i even with the msrp discount from it. So you have to look at it both ways.
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      03-21-2017, 09:48 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Well said, though I would not actually call our electronical M diff an E Diff, because the E82 135i had something called an E Diff at that time and that was more kind of torque vectoring as I recall.

McLaren also make use of TV 'diffs'. I though Porsche too(?), some models.

Cheers
Robin
The "ediff" in a 135 is an open differential. Meaning torque is ALWAYS split 50/50, no matter what...absent things like clutches on the outputs, etc.

There is no torque "vectoring" side to side with an open diff. With an open diff, output torque to either side is limited by the wheel with the least grip. For example, in the classic case of one wheel on ice and one on dry ground, the wheel on ice slips easily, limiting the torque provided to the wheel on dry ground (always 50/50, remember).

In that situation, the "ediff" function grabs the brake on the slipping wheel (ice wheel), ramping up the tractive torque "taken" by that wheel. Since it's a 50/50 split, that correspondingly increases the torque provided to the wheel with grip...and off you go. Mimics a LSD, but no true vectoring.

Cars like the focus RS don't technically have a rear diff. It uses a spool to split torque, with clutch packs on either sides output. So it can truly move torque side to side, or "vector" by controlling the clutches.

Car companies have expanded the term "torque vectoring" pretty ridiculously as a marketing tool.

A good read on the "myth" of an open diff, one-wheel drive, etc.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/your-d...rks-1661277563

The "Engineering Explained" videos do a good job too.

It's one of the most misunderstood concepts out there in the car world. That and "you need backpressure to make low-end power" (no!)
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      03-21-2017, 09:48 AM   #60
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      03-21-2017, 09:52 AM   #61
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Main difference for me is you can potentially lease two m240i's for close to the same price as leasing one m2. Therefore, the cost of being able to drive an m240 is wayyy lower than an m2.

If you want to buy, it's a no brainer in my opinion even if you based it on resale alone.

Having said all that, it was an easy decision to get the m2 for me. I bought a CPO 335 a couple years ago, and after going through the amazing depreciation on that car, I told myself I wouldn't buy a newer non-M car again.
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      03-21-2017, 09:55 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lop00 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Don't overestimate 40i. To be fair, in stock form m2 is still slightly quicker in straight line from anywhere.

It'd be a whole different story when tuned though.
I recently drove the M240i for 1000km road-trip and had the opportunity to test it on the Autobahn... I'm not sure the M2 is quicker over 150km/h, the M240i is seriously fast
And seriously ugly and uninspiring. Mustangs are fast too. So what?
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      03-21-2017, 10:56 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EstorilM View Post
Main difference for me is you can potentially lease two m240i's for close to the same price as leasing one m2. Therefore, the cost of being able to drive an m240 is wayyy lower than an m2.

If you want to buy, it's a no brainer in my opinion even if you based it on resale alone.

Having said all that, it was an easy decision to get the m2 for me. I bought a CPO 335 a couple years ago, and after going through the amazing depreciation on that car, I told myself I wouldn't buy a newer non-M car again.
It seems to me the higher the "M" number the greater the fall with depreciation,the M6 falling like a rock off a cliff lol.*At the moment* the M2 is where it's at for residuals...
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      03-21-2017, 11:01 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EstorilM View Post
Main difference for me is you can potentially lease two m240i's for close to the same price as leasing one m2. Therefore, the cost of being able to drive an m240 is wayyy lower than an m2.

If you want to buy, it's a no brainer in my opinion even if you based it on resale alone.

Having said all that, it was an easy decision to get the m2 for me. I bought a CPO 335 a couple years ago, and after going through the amazing depreciation on that car, I told myself I wouldn't buy a newer non-M car again.
Bingo. Just sold my 2015 M235i with less than 5,000 miles on it after just 18 months of ownership. I paid $47,000 OTD and the most I could get for it was $31,500. I sold my 1995 M3 last year for $17,500; it was 21 years old.
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      03-21-2017, 11:54 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by m34m View Post
And seriously ugly and uninspiring. Mustangs are fast too. So what?

I have M405 Wheels and body painted diffuser & mirrors on the M240i.

Sure, it's not M2 pretty but it sure as hell ain't ugly.

I own both. the M240i feels faster over 150km/h.

Do I lose sleep over this? No.

Have a look at what it does from 100-220km/h Sport+, Almost full tank https://streamable.com/a9k1u

Last edited by Dav3; 03-21-2017 at 12:00 PM..
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      03-21-2017, 12:03 PM   #66
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That video confirms what I said, you'd be happy with either car!

Mike
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