[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by rcowboy

I wouldn't say it is veering out of hand to suggest the 1M has incredible presence.

Unfortunately, we live in a material world where, most, of the time there is no political solution. It is usually about the money and most of the time it has to come from somewhere.

The only two cars that come to mind in the last 15 years that technically would have been an investment are the 1M and Ford GT. The resale market supports this notion.

Can you name me a dozen cars in the same park?

exactly...there is a reason the 1M is currently still selling for more than new....Ford GT as you said and the 911 GT3 4.0 are the two other cars recently which appreciated instantly after going on sale. NO other car has done so...

There is also a reason why BMW used the 1M as the basis for styling the F8X M3 and M4 and as the inspiration behind developing the M2....because the 1M did something very different stylistically.

As someone who drives a 1M....to get Lambo and Ferrari drivers giving you a thumbs up is a sign that there is something pretty special about the car...it definitely has a ton of presence. Anyone who thinks it doesn't hasn't seen one in person...It looks strange, beautiful, beastly, purposeful, and on massive steroids.

I daily drive mine for 120 miles a day and I can assure there are people constantly talking to me about it in traffic....I love that I give people a chance to see it as most people have never even seen one up close...

When I was buying my 1M I could have easily bought an F8X M, any used E9X M, plenty of 911s, etc etc...but aside from looks the 1M is the most enjoyable drive I've ever had so there is substance underneath the styling.

Will the M2 have those qualities?? To punch above its weight in styling and in driving enjoyment? It remains to be seen. I have high hopes it will and hope its owners enjoy their M2s but there is one thing for sure that without the 1M there would be NO M2----so a bit of respect is in order here.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

there is one thing for sure that without the 1M there would be NO M2----so a bit of respect is in order here.

The development and production of the 2 series caused the M2 to come to fruition, just like the 3/4 series caused the M3/4, just like the 5/6 series caused the M5/6. I'm sure R&D was used from the 1M but, to say the M2's birth is the result of the 1M is overreaching.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

The development and production of the 2 series caused the M2 to come to fruition, just like the 3/4 series caused the M3/4, just like the 5/6 series caused the M5/6. I'm sure R&D was used from the 1M but, to say the M2's birth is the result of the 1M is overreaching.

Ok really buddy. You need a reality check here.

The only parts of the M2 NOT tied to the 1M in some fashion are the closed deck cylinder head design , rev match, EPS and the DCT; as the M2 is an exact clone of the 1M, including the torque peak with overboost totaling 369 ft lbs (and apparently the EU curb weight...)

The way that m4 suspension, wheels, and rear subframe pickup points are shared, came from their experience doing the same in the 1Mand E9x..

Even the color blue and the DCT were inspired from complaints about the 1M, so.....

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Ok really buddy. You need a reality check here.

The only parts of the M2 NOT tied to the 1M in some fashion are the closed deck cylinder head design , rev match, EPS and the DCT; as the M2 is an exact clone of the 1M, including the torque peak with overboost totaling 369 ft lbs (and apparently the EU curb weight...)

The way that m4 suspension, wheels, and rear subframe pickup points are shared, came from their experience doing the same in the 1Mand E9x..

Even the color blue and the DCT were inspired from complaints about the 1M, so.....

it's hilarious to even suggest that the M2 is not a direct 'part 2' of the 1M! haha it's amazing how little some people know.

It's code name is "pyrat2" FFS!!!

they have gone out of their way to do 1M like stuff here. Limited colours, similar HP:weight, an attempt to make a small entry level M car.

The M2 is a massive tribute to the 1M and I see it as flattery! The M2 will be a great car but is the clear successor and sequel to a classic. If one doesn't think so then they don't understand what the M2 is...

[mofomat]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

but there is one thing for sure that without the 1M there would be NO M2.

What a complete load of unsubstantiated conjecture.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by mofomat

What a complete load of unsubstantiated conjecture.

And this is the point I'm trying to make here. The M2 was going to be produced regardless....it's the natural tendency of BMW, start with a series car and evolve it to an M...in this case: 2 series ----> M2.

To say the M2 would never have happened if it weren't for the 1M is ludicrous.

The M2 is the spiritual successor to the 1M, I agree. But I also agree it's the spiritual successor to the E36 M3.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by mofomat

What a complete load of unsubstantiated conjecture.

LOL!! wow...

the F2X 1 and 2-series exists because there was a E8X 1-series before it.

the M2 exists because the 1M existed before it. The M2 is heavily inspired by the 1M in every way.

Do you know what the codename "pyrat" means? do you understand the M2's codename of "pyrat2"?

you are delusional if you don't accept this simple fact. Either you know nothing about the 1M and M2 or you don't understand the word "conjecture"

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

how is that conjecture? it's FACT.

the 2-series exists because there was a 1-series before it.

the M2 exists because the 1M existed before it. The M2 is heavily inspired by the 1M in every way.

Do you know what the codename "pyrat" means? do you understand the M2's codename of "pyrat2"?

you are delusional if you don't accept this simple fact. Either you know nothing about the 1M and M2 or you don't understand the word "conjecture"

That's just dumb. This is pure fanboy shit. BMW is a business. They made the car because they felt there was some profit to be earned from it. That is the reason any of these cars are built. If you live in a world where you swallow all the koolaid BMW says, you are a delusional fanboy. The M2 exists because there is a business case for it. Plenty of people want a small M car. This has been evident well before the existence of the 1M.

[mofomat]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

LOL!! wow...

the F2X 1 and 2-series exists because there was a E8X 1-series before it.

the M2 exists because the 1M existed before it. The M2 is heavily inspired by the 1M in every way.

You're talking about two completely different things. Just because something was "inspired" by something else, it does not mean it wouldn't have existed anyway.

I completely agree that the 1M probably helped shape and support the business case for the M2, but it does NOT mean that had the 1M not been built, the M2 wouldn't have been built.

Your logic is utterly flawed.

Originally Posted by IEDEI

Do you know what the codename "pyrat" means? do you understand the M2's codename of "pyrat2"?

I do indeed. "Pyrat" is a type of rum and was the codename for the 1M which was developed by the M engineers in their spare time. The finished prototype was then presented to the BMW board who greenlighted the model for limited production.

Originally Posted by IEDEI

you are delusional if you don't accept this simple fact. Either you know nothing about the 1M and M2 or you don't understand the word "conjecture"

"Conjecture" is concluding something based on insufficient evidence. You have no evidence that had the 1M not existed, neither would the M2.

[Cope]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

And this is the point I'm trying to make here. The M2 was going to be produced regardless....it's the natural tendency of BMW, start with a series car and evolve it to an M...in this case: 2 series ----> M2.

To say the M2 would never have happened if it weren't for the 1M is ludicrous.

The M2 is the spiritual successor to the 1M, I agree. But I also agree it's the spiritual successor to the E36 M3.

What the hell are we arguing about?

What you're saying is conjecture as well. There are mutilple cases where bmw didn't follow this supposed natural tendency. Where is my f20 M car? Where's my Active 2er M car? Where's my X3M? Where's my production m8? Where's my m7? Where's my *insert nonexistent m car based on current standard bmw model* Where's this natural tendency? I just don't see it. The reverse has an example too, where's my non-M M1? (Bust out the tinfoil hats people, we wouldn't have had the 1 series without the M1).

But really why are we discussing this? It's obvious the 1M was important to the development of the M2. Would we have an M2 if the 1M didn't come before? I'd honestly be in the camp of probably not. The back story for the 1M can speak to that. It was designed while the boss was away lol. Sure its conjecture, but to say the M2 was only naturally going to be produced is also pure conjecture.

[Gibson6594]

Nice...an argument not revolving around mirrors.

[EvoKnvl]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

And this is the point I'm trying to make here. The M2 was going to be produced regardless....it's the natural tendency of BMW, start with a series car and evolve it to an M...in this case: 2 series ----> M2..

If that was the case, then the 1M should have been created without the engineers doing that they had to do to even get it green-lighted. The 1M came in to existence because they built one in their off time, and then got the approval. 1M wasn't on their radar before that.

[mofomat]

I can't believe this is even being discussed. There is no way of proving either way as to whether the M2 would have existed had the 1M been or not been produced. It's just OPINION. Nobody can say either is a FACT!! And that includes IEDEI

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

And this is the point I'm trying to make here. The M2 was going to be produced regardless....it's the natural tendency of BMW, start with a series car and evolve it to an M...in this case: 2 series ----> M2..

Kinda like the current Z4 M right... ?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

without the 1M there would be NO M2

Originally Posted by mofomat

What a complete load of unsubstantiated conjecture.

Originally Posted by Cope

Sure it's conjecture, but to say the M2 was only naturally going to be produced is also pure conjecture.

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

I'm sure R&D was used from the 1M but, to say the M2's birth is the result of the 1M is overreaching.

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

The way that m4 suspension, wheels, and rear subframe pickup points are shared, came from their experience doing the same in the 1M and E9x.

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

The M2 exists because there is a business case for it. Plenty of people want a small M car. This has been evident well before the existence of the 1M.

Still gotta wait for the first on-the-road test reviews early next year, but we may already dig up an old thread nevertheless (July 2013 - an era when it was still rumored that the M2 might sport a 4-banger, a rumor that may resurface should BMW have a CSL variant upon its sleeve):
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=860846 ("1M versus M2: the benefits of the impromptu factor")

[cc3]

Wouldn't surprise me if journalist tests will say 1M a bit of a rebel, M2 slightly more composed, little difference in performance.

Design of two models a matter of personal taste.

1M more of an experience and M2 doesn't really move the game on much. However BMW has left room for a more hardcore CSL version that will frighten the M3/4.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by mofomat

I can't believe this is even being discussed. There is no way of proving either way as to whether the M2 would have existed had the 1M been or not been produced. It's just OPINION. Nobody can say either is a FACT!! And that includes IEDEI

what is so difficult to understand here? I am amazed.

without an E30 M3 would there be an E36 M3? no.

without an E28 M5 would there be an E34 M5? no.

without an E82 1M would there be an M2? no.


the original cars here test the market and based on their results a successor was born. The end. This IS fact. The 2nd cars here are all offspring of the original...

The 1M achieved legendary status in a very short time...there is a market here for BMW to sell cars...they found it and hence the M2 was born from the next generation of the 1-series (2-series).

[mofomat]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

without an E30 M3 would there be an E36 M3? no.

Originally Posted by IEDEI

without an E28 M5 would there be an E34 M5? no.

Originally Posted by IEDEI

without an E82 1M would there be an M2? no.

How do you know?

Originally Posted by IEDEI

the original cars here test the market and based on their results a successor was born.

What you're saying is that had BMW chosen NOT to go ahead with the E30 M3, then they would NEVER EVER have reconsidered building an M3 further down the line, which is absolutely ludicrous!! Businesses are constantly evaluating and re-evaluting their decisions and the market. Things may have been different and the E36 M3 might have been the original M3. Sure the success of the E30 M3 helped the business case of the E36 M3, just as the 1M success helped the business case of the M2. But to say none of the subsequent models would have existed had the originals not existed is

FACTUALLY WRONG and impossible to prove. What you're trying to do is prove a false negative!! It's like asking an atheist to prove God doesn't exist!!

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

what is so difficult to understand here? I am amazed.

without an E30 M3 would there be an E36 M3? no.

without an E28 M5 would there be an E34 M5? no.

without an E82 1M would there be an M2? no.


the original cars here test the market and based on their results a successor was born. The end. This IS fact. The 2nd cars here are all offspring of the original...

The 1M achieved legendary status in a very short time...there is a market here for BMW to sell cars...they found it and hence the M2 was born from the next generation of the 1-series (2-series).

So how did the 1M come into existence? How did the E30 M3 come into existence? How did cars come into existence? How did the idea of moving around come into existence? How did we come into existence? The M2 doesn't exist because of the 1M. The M2 exists just because. Period. At best you might say the M2 exists because the 2 series exists, but truth is it exists only because BMW felt there was a business case for it.

It almost didn't exist since the gap between M235i and M3 is narrow in terms of price to performance. I cannot prove that BMW felt there was no need for an M2, but if you take all the whispers and misdirection/confusion early on, we can assume at some point the question was in the air, rather than being a sure thing that the M2 would be green lighted.

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

The M2 exists just because. Period.

Lol reminds me of "Because I said so and I'm the parent."

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

That's just dumb. This is pure fanboy shit. BMW is a business. They made the car because they felt there was some profit to be earned from it. That is the reason any of these cars are built. If you live in a world where you swallow all the koolaid BMW says, you are a delusional fanboy. The M2 exists because there is a business case for it. Plenty of people want a small M car. This has been evident well before the existence of the 1M.

Agreed - the 1M really happened because many felt the E92 M3 had gotten too big, so the M guys were able to recreate the business case for a smaller M car - aka, the 1M.

Did the 1M do well? Of course it did. But they only made 1500 or 2000 of them, or whatever it was. Aka, BMW wasn't convinced unless the market proved that such a car would succeed from a sales perspective.

BMW didn't want a repeat of the Z4MC - a brilliant car that didn't sell well, and one that BMW ended up giving 10K discounts on - my dad was lucky enough to get one for a steal - so they built an artificially small number of 1Ms to help establish the market. They sold out...so BMW put more R&D into the M2, and probably won't set a specific number, but they aren't going to make thousands of those every year either.

[technik330]

.... tough crowd recently, over the last page of posts.

Pew-pew