know thy enemy well... Audi RS3...

Devon K · 08-23-2014, 01:47 AM

Thanks for relating your experiences with the DCT bradleyland - as a MT-only owner (hell, as a 1-car owner so far) I found them extremely interesting. I'm definitely planning to test drive a DCT prior to deciding on a transmission if I go the M2 route.

Cavpilot2k · 08-24-2014, 12:02 PM

Okay, can't we all just hug it out without getting butt-hurt over our differences in preferences? lol.

DCT guys like their DCTs and MT guys like their MTs. Neither is better or worse because we are each looking for a different experience. Just so happens that for me, I find the mechanical connection to be more fun. Others prefer the ability to not have to focus on the (unnecessary via technology) third pedal. Guess what? For the time being (and hopefully long into the future), as long as we choose BMW, we get the choice.

An anecdote that some will understand and some will shake their heads at:
A few years ago before I got my 135i, I was driving a VW Jetta TDI (6MT) and my (now ex) wife had a BMW 328 (AT). Her Bimmer had better acceleration and had better, flatter cornering, but I rarely drove it to work when offered, even though I drove through a hellish stop-and-go Cambridge/Boston commute. I preferred the fun of the MT VW over the better-performing and more luxurious AT BMW, even in stop-and-go traffic. To me the traffic doesn't bother me- that's just driving, in my book, which I love to do. I don't mind the workout my left leg gets (I'm a fitness enthusiast anyway, so more movement is always better in any situation in my opinion).

Conversely, my wife, who could drive a MT skillfully, deliberately chose the AT so as to not have to deal with a clutch in traffic. To each his (or her) own.

(That said, after I got my 135, she was so impressed with it that when her 328 lease was up, she got a 128 MT) ;-)

Dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks.

All that said, I wouldn't choose the RS3 for two reasons: the lack of a MT, and the fact that I have yet to drive an Audi with as good of a steering feel as a BMW. This one might be different, but all Audis I have driven are too light in the steering - too much boosted assist.

bradleyland · 08-24-2014, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

Okay, can't we all just hug it out without getting butt-hurt over our differences in preferences? lol.

Who is butt-hurt? You're projecting, dude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

DCT guys like their DCTs and MT guys like their MTs. Neither is better or worse because we are each looking for a different experience. Just so happens that for me, I find the mechanical connection to be more fun. Others prefer the ability to not have to focus on the (unnecessary via technology) third pedal. Guess what? For the time being (and hopefully long into the future), as long as we choose BMW, we get the choice.

Agree for the most part. Just keep in mind that the preference for DCT isn't always because someone finds the clutch pedal unnecessary. I love working the clutch pedal, but I also love the DCT; just for different reasons.

My next car will be a manual again, but not because I find DCT lacking. I just like to change it up. I can say this much, DCT is the only manu-matic I've driven that I consider an alternative to a manual. VW's DSG just doesn't do it for me, and the dual-clutch in the CLA 45 drove me bonkers.

nachob · 08-25-2014, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

Okay, can't we all just hug it out without getting butt-hurt over our differences in preferences? lol.

DCT guys like their DCTs and MT guys like their MTs. Neither is better or worse because we are each looking for a different experience. Just so happens that for me, I find the mechanical connection to be more fun. Others prefer the ability to not have to focus on the (unnecessary via technology) third pedal. Guess what? For the time being (and hopefully long into the future), as long as we choose BMW, we get the choice.

An anecdote that some will understand and some will shake their heads at:
A few years ago before I got my 135i, I was driving a VW Jetta TDI (6MT) and my (now ex) wife had a BMW 328 (AT). Her Bimmer had better acceleration and had better, flatter cornering, but I rarely drove it to work when offered, even though I drove through a hellish stop-and-go Cambridge/Boston commute. I preferred the fun of the MT VW over the better-performing and more luxurious AT BMW, even in stop-and-go traffic. To me the traffic doesn't bother me- that's just driving, in my book, which I love to do. I don't mind the workout my left leg gets (I'm a fitness enthusiast anyway, so more movement is always better in any situation in my opinion).

Conversely, my wife, who could drive a MT skillfully, deliberately chose the AT so as to not have to deal with a clutch in traffic. To each his (or her) own.

(That said, after I got my 135, she was so impressed with it that when her 328 lease was up, she got a 128 MT) ;-)

Dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks.

All that said, I wouldn't choose the RS3 for two reasons: the lack of a MT, and the fact that I have yet to drive an Audi with as good of a steering feel as a BMW. This one might be different, but all Audis I have driven are too light in the steering - too much boosted assist.

Yes, different strokes! As I said earlier, I was an early adopter of the first mass produced DCT! I remember the quick shifts and mechanical connection over slushboxes of the past but 8 years have passed and I have driven every other type of DCT and still do but I just don't find the satisfaction and connection of the old school MT.

I recently watched Chris Harris compare the 2015 Golf R and M235i. He said he thought the Golf chassis and suspension were better and the engine more flexible but in the end, he preferred what you can get with a front engine rear wheel drive car. If you think about it a 2.0L turbo making 300hp, all wheel drive and dynamic suspension that is actually good is like the DCT more modern and better, yet Harris chose the less precise chassis etc because rear drive gave him a feeling you can't get with super advanced all wheel drive. This is analogous to the DCT and MT. Something "better," faster, more modern is not more enjoyable for some. So as long as BMW respects my wishes, I feel compelled to vote with my wallet. Sorry Audi!

Tony · 08-25-2014, 02:01 PM

The Clutch pedal is an Archaic device. What will you guys want next? A choke? Hand Crank Starters? I'm sure people complained about the loss of the Hand-Crank Starter. People even bragged that their horse is better than any car.

There's a reason why Lambo and Ferrari told you clutch-pedal guys to take a walk. If it were up to you, we'd be driving cars with 1920's derived transmissions forever. You like old outdated transmissions, I get it. But don't expect everyone to be as stuck in the past as you guys. And I voted with my Wallet, For DCT.

SmallTownBoy · 08-25-2014, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

The Clutch pedal is an Archaic device.

Eh, Tony, wassamaddaforyou? You no like-a da clutch? You pusha da lef pedal, blip-a da gas anna move-a da stick. Badda Bing, Badda Boom - smood like fettucine alfredo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

There's a reason why Lambo and Ferrari told you clutch-pedal guys to take a walk.

And what was that, pray tell? I drive MT because I enjoy it a lot. As long as they make 'em, I'll buy 'em.

Tony · 08-25-2014, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

And what was that, pray tell? I drive MT because I enjoy it a lot. As long as they make 'em, I'll buy 'em.

Ask Lambo or Ferrari. They are the ones who told you clutch pedal guys to take a walk. The list of performance cars that you cannot get with a clutch pedal is staggering.

Now tell me, if the clutch pedal is that good, then why is it excluded on every Ferrari and Lambo? Are those cars not fun? Are those cars boring to drive? I don't think so. Are those cars lacking in involvement? Is a 458 Italia boring? The Clutch pedal is done, and I'm glad to see it go. It isn't needed for performance driving, or to have fun. It's just a cumbersome, archaic device that requires for you to jump through hoops just to shift a gear.

SmallTownBoy · 08-25-2014, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

Ask Lambo or Ferrari.

Ah, my bad. For a minute I thought you claimed to know something.

What's boring is this incessant "MT is obsolete" bullshit. I don't care if you think it's obsolete and it's not relevant to the discussion.

I also don't care to tell others what they should or shouldn't like, or what options they should or shouldn't have. Enjoy your choice of tranny. Peace out.

Tony · 08-25-2014, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

Ah, my bad. For a minute I thought you claimed to know something.

What's boring is this incessant "MT is obsolete" bullshit. I don't care if you think it's obsolete and it's not relevant to the discussion.

What's boring are you manual guys calling DCT boring. You do it all the time. Guess you can dish it out but you cant take it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

I also don't care to tell others what they should or shouldn't like, or what options they should or shouldn't have. Enjoy your choice of tranny. Peace out.

Then why don't you say the same thing to the manual tranny lovers that knock DCT Ad nauseam? I see a little hypocrisy going on with you. Enjoy.

SmallTownBoy · 08-25-2014, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

What's boring are you manual guys calling DCT boring. You do it all the time. Guess you can dish it out but you cant take it?

Yes, ALL of us are saying the SAME thing, ALL the time. You've got us dead to rights. There's a difference between "enjoy more" and "the alternative is boring." I didn't malign your choice, I just enjoy the MT more. You, however, want to make that choice for "us."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

Then why don't you say the same thing to the manual tranny lovers that knock DCT Ad nauseam? I see a little hypocrisy going on with you. Enjoy.

I don't have to, and generally their posts are not as noxious as yours.

Tony · 08-25-2014, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

Yes, ALL of us are saying the SAME thing, ALL the time. You've got us dead to rights. There's a difference between "enjoy more" and "the alternative is boring." I didn't malign your choice, I just enjoy the MT more. You, however, want to make that choice for "us."

I don't care what choice you make. You can drive a stage coach for all I care. The point I was trying to make is that every time this subject is brought up. Out come the manual lovers attacking DCT. As if they are insecure about something. It never fails. you hear them say; "No manual no sale". Who Gives a F?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

I don't have to, and generally their posts are not as noxious as yours.

noxious? That's what you call posts that you don't agree with? I got it now.

SmallTownBoy · 08-25-2014, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

I don't care what choice you make. You can drive a stage coach for all I care. The point I was trying to make is that every time this subject is brought up. Out come the manual lovers attacking DCT. As is they are insecure about something. It never fails. you hear them say; "No manual no sale". Who Gives a F?

You do. You care. A lot. Just go back and read your post #71. Nothing but slanging against MT and MT drivers, as a class. Enjoy your DCT, and thanks for your opinion about the future of MT. If you ever find out the reason why Lambo and Ferrari "sent me a message", get back to us, ok?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

noxious? That's what you call posts that you don't agree with? I got it now.

No, that's what I called your posts in this thread.

Tony · 08-27-2014, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

You do. You care. A lot. Just go back and read your post #71. Nothing but slanging against MT and MT drivers, as a class. Enjoy your DCT, and thanks for your opinion about the future of MT. If you ever find out the reason why Lambo and Ferrari "sent me a message", get back to us, ok?

I don't care. I'm just slinging the mud back that was slung at us. If you want to look like you are having a convulsion just to accomplish a gear shift, be my guest. Not sure why I would care about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

No, that's what I called your posts in this thread.

You are clearly a one-sided hypocrite that refuses to acknowledge that the manual lovers bash DCT (they started it). Later.

Cope · 08-27-2014, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

If you want to look like you are having a convulsion just to accomplish a gear shift, be my guest.

Convulsion? Good use of hyperbole. Unless you actually are convulsing, then I would see a licensed health professional because there's something wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

You are clearly a one-sided hypocrite that refuses to acknowledge that the manual lovers bash DCT (they started it).

No you started it!

But in all seriousness, just buy what you want and get over it.

Tony · 08-27-2014, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cope

Convulsion? Good use of hyperbole. Unless you actually are convulsing, then I would see a licensed health professional because there's something wrong.

OK how about looking like you are having an Epileptic Seizure to accomplish a gear shift? LOL!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cope

No you started it!

These 2 quotes are from folks here (in quotes below). Keep in mind at this point no one had weighed in or even mentioned DCT. These posts were well in advance of mine. But I started it? LOL! Whatever dude. Now watch you say something like I escalated it. I responded. Big difference.

“Many of us that prefer manual transmissions because of the way they drive are constantly confronted by the automatic fans that cling rapaciously .1 or .2 second faster 0-60 time saying things like "you'll end up in the slow lane with a manual.”

“RS3 is irrelevant and not worthy of consideration because they are making it auto only (and yes, DCT still counts as an auto).”

SmallTownBoy · 08-27-2014, 05:31 PM

You either (i) have serious reading comprehension and reasoning deficits or (ii) are a troll. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with the latter.

Transfer · 08-27-2014, 08:06 PM

ANYONE who argues MT vs DCT is a troll. You guys ruined yet another thread (not that it was a very good one anyway).

Cope · 08-28-2014, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

OK how about looking like you are having an Epileptic Seizure to accomplish a gear shift? LOL!!

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hyperbole

Cavpilot2k · 08-28-2014, 11:01 AM

Jesus, people, let go of the whole MT/DCT thing (which is especially irrelevant here, since the RS3 doesn't have a MT and the 235 doesn't have a DCT - it's an AT). It's a personal preference thing and fortunately we still have the choice.

It's like arguing whether chocolate or vanilla ice cream is better - it's a dumb thing to fight over when there is no right or wrong answer.

Tony · 08-28-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

You either (i) have serious reading comprehension and reasoning deficits or (ii) are a troll. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with the latter.

And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and tell you to KMA.

sgrinavi · 08-28-2014, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

Jesus, people, let go of the whole MT/DCT thing (which is especially irrelevant here, since the RS3 doesn't have a MT and the 235 doesn't have a DCT - it's an AT). It's a personal preference thing and fortunately we still have the choice.

It's like arguing whether chocolate or vanilla ice cream is better - it's a dumb thing to fight over when there is no right or wrong answer.

I think people get that, but it's our duty to defend our position regardless of how pointless it is.

Oh ya - Chocolate is better, lets fight.

Cavpilot2k · 08-28-2014, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

I think people get that, but it's our duty to defend our position regardless of how pointless it is.

Oh ya - Chocolate is better, lets fight.

Chocolate? Are you kidding me?!?! You must be an IDIOT!!!!

08-23-2014, 01:47 AM	#67
Devon K Lieutenant 38 Rep 570 Posts Drives: TBD Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Thanks for relating your experiences with the DCT bradleyland - as a MT-only owner (hell, as a 1-car owner so far) I found them extremely interesting. I'm definitely planning to test drive a DCT prior to deciding on a transmission if I go the M2 route.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-24-2014, 12:02 PM	#68
Cavpilot2k Chief Warrant Officer 1027 Rep 1,638 Posts Drives: like a damn lunatic Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Boston iTrader: (0)	Okay, can't we all just hug it out without getting butt-hurt over our differences in preferences? lol. DCT guys like their DCTs and MT guys like their MTs. Neither is better or worse because we are each looking for a different experience. Just so happens that for me, I find the mechanical connection to be more fun. Others prefer the ability to not have to focus on the (unnecessary via technology) third pedal. Guess what? For the time being (and hopefully long into the future), as long as we choose BMW, we get the choice. An anecdote that some will understand and some will shake their heads at: A few years ago before I got my 135i, I was driving a VW Jetta TDI (6MT) and my (now ex) wife had a BMW 328 (AT). Her Bimmer had better acceleration and had better, flatter cornering, but I rarely drove it to work when offered, even though I drove through a hellish stop-and-go Cambridge/Boston commute. I preferred the fun of the MT VW over the better-performing and more luxurious AT BMW, even in stop-and-go traffic. To me the traffic doesn't bother me- that's just driving, in my book, which I love to do. I don't mind the workout my left leg gets (I'm a fitness enthusiast anyway, so more movement is always better in any situation in my opinion). Conversely, my wife, who could drive a MT skillfully, deliberately chose the AT so as to not have to deal with a clutch in traffic. To each his (or her) own. (That said, after I got my 135, she was so impressed with it that when her 328 lease was up, she got a 128 MT) ;-) Dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks. All that said, I wouldn't choose the RS3 for two reasons: the lack of a MT, and the fact that I have yet to drive an Audi with as good of a steering feel as a BMW. This one might be different, but all Audis I have driven are too light in the steering - too much boosted assist.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-25-2014, 02:01 PM	#71
Tony Second Lieutenant 49 Rep 286 Posts Drives: 2018 X3 M40i Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Rockland County iTrader: (0)	The Clutch pedal is an Archaic device. What will you guys want next? A choke? Hand Crank Starters? I'm sure people complained about the loss of the Hand-Crank Starter. People even bragged that their horse is better than any car. There's a reason why Lambo and Ferrari told you clutch-pedal guys to take a walk. If it were up to you, we'd be driving cars with 1920's derived transmissions forever. You like old outdated transmissions, I get it. But don't expect everyone to be as stuck in the past as you guys. And I voted with my Wallet, For DCT. Last edited by Tony; 08-25-2014 at 02:55 PM..
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08-27-2014, 05:31 PM	#82
SmallTownBoy First Lieutenant 9 Rep 347 Posts Drives: '14 M235i 6MT PSS BSM Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: South Detroit, Canada iTrader: (0)	You either (i) have serious reading comprehension and reasoning deficits or (ii) are a troll. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with the latter. __________________ F22 * (N55 + 6MT) ÷ PSS = FUN Last edited by SmallTownBoy; 08-27-2014 at 05:41 PM..
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08-27-2014, 08:06 PM	#83
Transfer Major General 5295 Rep 5,875 Posts Drives: Bronco Wildtrak, Tesla MYP Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Issaquah, WA iTrader: (1)	ANYONE who argues MT vs DCT is a troll. You guys ruined yet another thread (not that it was a very good one anyway).
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08-28-2014, 11:01 AM	#85
Cavpilot2k Chief Warrant Officer 1027 Rep 1,638 Posts Drives: like a damn lunatic Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Boston iTrader: (0)	Jesus, people, let go of the whole MT/DCT thing (which is especially irrelevant here, since the RS3 doesn't have a MT and the 235 doesn't have a DCT - it's an AT). It's a personal preference thing and fortunately we still have the choice. It's like arguing whether chocolate or vanilla ice cream is better - it's a dumb thing to fight over when there is no right or wrong answer.
	Appreciate 0 Quote