09-27-2015, 07:22 PM | #67 | |
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not missing your singular point at all.. I love engine sounds too.. guess what... The S14 kicks ass over the S54 ;-) |
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09-27-2015, 07:34 PM | #68 | |
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Did you even read my post?
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09-27-2015, 08:38 PM | #69 |
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As I posted before, it wouldn't surprise me that the M2 CSL might be a track-focused 4-banger, somewhere in the ± 3100 lbs / ± 1400 kg zone, stripped to the very essence, two-seater (roll cage), sports seats, extensive use of CF and CFRP and a price-tag deep within M3/M4 territory. But street legal (unlike the M235i Racing).
The mad brother of the base M2 + marketing picturing it next to notorious M3 4-bangers of decades ago, accompanied by "///M Pure" or "///M Hardcore" slogans. BMW did evaluate 4 cylinders for application in the M2. There is a 4-cyl with Power eDrive and eBoost which can produce around 450 PS. Go figure ! Now here's my point: if the M2 CSL goes 4-cyl, we're bound to get a never-ending discussion too, loaded with 6-cyl nostalgia, with reference to core values and alleged ///M treason, etc. But then again, the next gen Porsche 2-seater models Boxster and Cayman go turbo 4-banger. Less weight, improved handling/braking, improved fuel consumption figures, less CO2 emissions. Car sound ain't a trivial aspect, that much is true. As a matter of fact, I like some mean grunt too. But it won't be the most defining aspect to assess the car - it's part of the big(ger) package. The way how the car drives/handles and how it's experienced by those on board, matters more. Cherish the past - Embrace the future.
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09-27-2015, 08:45 PM | #70 |
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Eh I'm not so sure, man. If BMW can make a 4 cylinder work, that means the weight will have been cut low enough for them to be comfortable enough to use a 4-cyl. The execs of AMG/M/RS have said the the horsepower wars are over and I think customers will accept that. As BMW's carbon core eventually trickles down to the cheaper models, I think we'll see smaller engines. Also, I think most people have gotten their "turbochargers are blasphemy!" stuff out of their systems
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09-27-2015, 09:13 PM | #71 | ||
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09-27-2015, 09:18 PM | #72 | |
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Not being a dick, just legitimately asking. |
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09-27-2015, 09:34 PM | #73 |
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You should actually take a look at what low mileage E46 M3's are going for in autotrader.They are going up in value now.Not from there original price,but from what the depreciated value was a few years ago.The only reason the 1M values are so high is because they didn't make that many of them.That is the only reason.I would much rather have my E46 M3 than a 1M and yes I am also ordering an M2.
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09-27-2015, 09:41 PM | #74 | ||
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And yes I've driven the m235i (found it very unappealing to rev out. Sounded ok but fake and lacking top end) and the M4 had MPE was a beast and loud. Would need more seat time to gauge how confident I'd be to throw it around corners. The m235i felt more at home (e46)for size hence why I've got deposits down at 2 dealerships for the last 6 months. |
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09-27-2015, 09:46 PM | #75 | |
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09-28-2015, 06:25 AM | #76 |
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If the 0-62MPH delta is 0.6 second on a 4,000 lbs X4, then the M2 is going to be something very special. N55 or not, I'd expect 370-380 hp for an M2, and in a 500 lbs lighter car, it is going to everything we'd love to see and more. People just need to be patient. I'd rather M takes there time getting it right than rushing out a half baked product.
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09-28-2015, 06:56 AM | #77 | |
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BMW had apparently said that 600 was the magic number, I believe (in terms of RWD and traction). But, that doesn't mean that they cannot find a way to go over that. |
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09-28-2015, 07:04 AM | #78 | |
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"The horsepower war is over," declares Volker Mornhinweg, head of Mercedes-Benz's performance division AMG. AMG says that it will now focus on a lower emissions strategy for all future models. Mornhinweg says the tuner will pursue technologies that create improved performance and economy by reducing curb weight and optimizing engines and transmissions. And the 600hp BMW cap you mentioned. You're right though, whether they put their money where their mouths are remains to be seen. I think it will take a few generations, when cars get lighter with cheaper carbon fiber production. |
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09-28-2015, 07:06 AM | #79 | |
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http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=981235
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09-28-2015, 07:14 AM | #80 | |
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Especially when the Cadillac CTS-V has 640 hp. Now, you KNOW BMW M and Mercedes AMG will try and leapfrog that with the next M5 and E63 AMG, respectively The next GT3 could have more than 500 and also be lighter. Think about it, the Mustang GT350/R has a 520 Hp naturally aspirated flat plane V8. And the car is not as light as the GT3, but it is getting noticed by the press. And Mercedes, please. They could be saying that just to dupe the competition. When push comes to shove, especially when the shove comes from rivals like the Americans, the Germans will up the ante. |
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09-28-2015, 07:28 AM | #81 |
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It is widely recognized that automakers are shooting for lightness and not power going forward.
Yes, cars may get slight bumps in power (similar to the m4 over e92 m3) because it is makes more sense to consumers and is more marketable. But at some point none of the extra power is usable and comes at the detriment of handling and efficiency.
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09-28-2015, 07:52 AM | #82 | |
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And how much would you guys like to bet that when the Competition Pack comes out, it'll add even more.
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09-28-2015, 08:05 AM | #83 | |
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Besides the Cayman and Boxster, there are other NA options for small and sporty coupes - they just aren't contained within the BMW line. So one has to determine for themselves if the wait for the M2 or the proposed spec sheet or the missing M bits (CF roof, hood bulge, CCB, etc.) are such annoyances that they need to leave the brand. A combination of those factors led me down a path to where the 981 was the best option for me...and it is an awesome car. But I really think the M2 is going to be awesome too. Now that I've had the 981 for three + months, I am completely addicted to the balance and "stuck to the road" feeling that the car gives me. The M2 will be very similar, albeit probably a little more inclined to oversteer. but that's what is fun about these cars - not them being insanely fast in a straight line. That's waiting for you at your local GM or Ford dealer, if that's what you want...
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09-28-2015, 08:59 AM | #84 |
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Even if the M2 uses the exact same tuning I will be happy. I was expecting most of the development to be spent where it counts, the suspension/chassis, and was thinking the motor would only produce ~340hp. This works just fine for me. Enjoy the M2 for what it is...an entry level M car which hopefully has wonderful handling characteristics.
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09-28-2015, 09:33 AM | #85 |
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It will be really weird if the M2 gets this engine. Here are some thoughts why. First of all, if you look at the 340i (B58) with the new M performance power and sound kit, then you'll see it has 360PS (355bhp) and 500Nm (369ft-lbs) of torgue (Link). So the same power as the X4 M40i, but more torque (35Nm). But the pre-LCI F30 335i with the MPP kit had the exact figures as the M235i. And now the new M240i is going to have just ~15hp more than the standard 340i (according to ynguldyn) and ~20hp less than the 340i with MPP kit.
What I'm trying to say is that, if this is all true, then BMW is going to have 3 different engine outputs with 2 different engines with just 20PS difference between them. 360PS for N55 (X4, M2) and B58 (340i MPP), ~340PS for B58 (M240i). Which to me doesn't make any sense. Why don't they put the B58 with 360PS into the M2? It has more torque, max power is between 5500-6500rpm (revs higher) and it's a newer engine than the N55. Or am I missing something? |
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09-28-2015, 09:59 AM | #86 | |
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Also, think of the Porsche comparison for the 981: Base 981: 275 BHP 981 S: 325 BHP 981 GTS: 340 BHP 981 Spyder: 370 BHP 981 GT4: 380 BHP Pretty similar levels of power, wouldn't you say? And these are all the same body style! I think the idea is that more choice is better than no choice. You can have a high BHP car with lots of options, a low BHP car with no options, and everything in-between. I, for one, am glad to have as many choices as possible, because then you can spec out the car in a manner that is conducive to your particular tastes. Which is good.
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09-28-2015, 12:18 PM | #88 |
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Holy sht. We agree on something!
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