[oldmanstyle]

Originally Posted by marcusfva

Maybe not on the paper but in the real street life the M2 CS and the new RS3 will be direct competitors. In my opinion the BMW marketing can't ignore the wide different in pricing that already exist between the new RS3 (53.500 Eu for the SB + 4-5k Euro to have the same equipment) and the standard M2 DCT (69.000 Eu - IT prices).

If the BMW CS will cost at least 10K EU more than the standard (+- 80.000Eu), this price difference will became to big more than 20k Eu - in this market segment - to justify any better skills that could have over the RS3.

Just my personal european thought

Interesting. In the US the RS3 is ~$5k more expensive when similarly optioned.

[MR.]

Another lovely read here...

I simply cannot wait for the M2 CS, and I am a bit annoyed it is taking them until somewhere early next year to get us all our cars, but I can see from their end it is a pretty natural development. So we just have to wait, and wait, and wait, ....

A few weeks ago I was here for a meeting, yes in a Giulia QV which I had for a number of days because the M2 was getting a detail and an audio system fitted.... Unfortunately I have to keep my mouth completely shut. Please don't ask me anything, because I cannot answer anything. I can only say it was a nice visit and my still water tasted lovely...



MR

[filet.M2c]

Originally Posted by MR.

Unfortunately I have to keep my mouth completely shut. Please don't ask me anything, because I cannot answer anything. I can only say it was a nice visit and my still water tasted lovely...

What a tease. Doing us dirty, MR. VPN + new username= time to enlighten us

[MR.]

Originally Posted by synergist

What a tease. Doing us dirty, MR. VPN + new username= time to enlighten us

If only I could... hahahah But business agreements and NDA's don't allow. At least we have some videos from the Ring that keep us busy and allow us to look at our next car.

All I can say in general is that we should not get our hopes up too much when it comes to BMW M. The purist car maker has changed into a money making machine. The absence of M mirrors (who were intended to be on the final spec car, but were clearly deleted last minute for budget reasons), rumored cancellation of the M2 Convertible, the need for special seats in the M2, the crappy brakes on the M2, the 1000 special editions of the M4, heavy discounts on M3/M4's of up to 25%, etc are a clear indication of this.

Just don't get your hopes up that BMW will start to include every little wish you have. They can't because it is not profitable, and the BMW M management levels have calculators in their hands, not racing gloves and definitely do not look at the heritage of the brand (e.g. M3 CSL) like we do. It freaking hurts my M heart, but at least we have the aftermarket companies who offer us the options we want (e.g. real ducktail trunk, cf roof and bonnet, decent brakes, etc).

Both for MINI and BMW M - brands I absolutely love - I see the same thing happening... Everything that Porsche does well - 911R, GT4, GT3 manual, etc -, BMW does wrong and they don't want to look at Zuffenhausen. The current MINI JCW is a glorified Golf with a MINI badge and with the most horrendous suspension set up ever. It is just sad. At least, we are getting a M2 CS and we bring it to an aftermarket supplier creating what we think should be a M2 CSL continuing the heritage of the M3 CSL (or at least up to a level that we feel is possible). Because at this moment, it is something I feel we will never see again.

I will be getting a M2 CS, and yes I will change it. In the meantime I just keep the mileage lower on the M2, enjoy the last changes I have done to it, drive my GP2 on the Ring now that is almost track spec ready. In the end, we cannot do much else than wait, wait until they pull the cover of it and see what they have created. Like the M2, M3, M4, M4 CS, M4 GTS, I know for 100% it will not be what we hope it will be, but there are so many options to get it to that level we want it to be and I am really happy for that... I could not live without customization.

MR

[jjclyde]

Originally Posted by MR.

A few weeks ago I was here for a meeting, yes in a Giulia QV which I had for a number of days

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Giulia QF. Overall and/or vs. the (future) M2 CS.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by jjclyde

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Giulia QF. Overall and/or vs. the (future) M2 CS.

The Giulia QV? I absolutely adore it and fell in love with it the first day I drove one. It is better than a standard M3 or M4 in so many different aspects. I almost sold my M2 for it and replaced it with a Giulia, because I got an offer I could not refuse. In the end, due to all the changes on my M2 it would be too much of a hassle to get a Giulia now. I simply do not have time to built the M2 back to stock.

The Giulia has way more soul and it steers much better. The progressive and light footed behavior in turns is stunning. The engine note is better and the handling feels way more compliant. It really drives like a Ferrari sedan. The Giulia gives you that special feeling of driving an Alfa, and is overall a more lovely car to experience.

However, the M3/M4 has more features inside the interior, more options throughout and offers a more premium feel in the cabin. The Alfa can be a bit cheap here and there, and lacks premium features like a head-up display.

The Giulia is not a M2. It is a bigger car, it is a sedan not a Coupe and it is not in one league with the M2. I like the smaller package in the M2, but if I would be in the market for a standard M3 the Giulia would win every single day of my life. It is that good and special.

The M3 Competition is more on par with the Giulia, and that says a lot about the Giulia, the price level and the capabilities of that machine. It is genuinely that good, and I told BMW M that what the Giulia has is what current BMWs miss... The M3/M4 are too clinical and let me feel as if they are too much powered like a "muscle car". I miss that touch of being special, and the coolness level of an automotive experience you feel when driving a E46 M3... I do not need more power, I want to feel more special when I drive it through a corner or push it flat-out. It should award you, not light up the traction control light all the freaking time.

The Giulia offers you something special. You could call it the Alfa experience, and in my opinion that is best shown in the way the Giulia QV idles in front of a traffic light. The Italians choose a rpm that allows the car to wobble/move a bit on idle. Giving you the feeling the car is alive and wants to go. Little touch, not something we would get in any contemporary BMW, but in many ways it is so cool...

If Alfa would make a M2 competitor with that set up and engine, I would really have a hard time choosing a M2 over it... It is that good and special.

MR

[jjclyde]

Originally Posted by MR.

The Giulia QV? I absolutely adore it and fell in love with it the first day I drove one.

Very interesting to hear your feedback ... I was wondering if it might be the "better M3". I think I will have to go test drive one. Thank you for your thorough commentary - much appreciated!

And not to argue - but unless I'm mistaken, it's called "Giulia QuadriFoglio". So QF, not QV. Quadrifoglio = four-leaf clover, or cloverleaf - a long time Alfa icon. You're probably thinking QV because of the legacy of the term QuattroValvole - four valve ... and famously the Ferrari 308 Quattrovalvole.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by jjclyde

Very interesting to hear your feedback ... I was wondering if it might be the "better M3". I think I will have to go test drive one. Thank you for your thorough commentary - much appreciated!

And not to argue - but unless I'm mistaken, it's called "Giulia QuadriFoglio". So QF, not QV. Quadrifoglio = four-leaf clover, or cloverleaf - a long time Alfa icon. You're probably thinking QV because of the legacy of the term QuattroValvole - four valve ... and famously the Ferrari 308 Quattrovalvole.

Nope, it is Quadrifoglio, but we call it QV because of Quadrifoglio Verde... Verde stands for Green in Italian, and the cloverleaf is green on the sides. Typically Italian. Oh and often we just call it the quattro formaggi, if people don't have a clue what car you are talking about.

MR

[mrcheezle19]

Originally Posted by MR.

If only I could... hahahah But business agreements and NDA's don't allow. At least we have some videos from the Ring that keep us busy and allow us to look at our next car.

All I can say in general is that we should not get our hopes up too much when it comes to BMW M. The purist car maker has changed into a money making machine. The absence of M mirrors (who were intended to be on the final spec car, but were clearly deleted last minute for budget reasons), rumored cancellation of the M2 Convertible, the need for special seats in the M2, the crappy brakes on the M2, the 1000 special editions of the M4, heavy discounts on M3/M4's of up to 25%, etc are a clear indication of this.



MR

Show us where, I'm pretty sure everybody would love to know.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by mrcheezle19

Show us where, I'm pretty sure everybody would love to know.

Here in Czech I got 10% without asking and I could argue for a lot more. I also heard about it in the UK as well... They are dumping them big time. No idea why, but if in the market people are talking about discounts of up to 25% then something is not going well with sales of that model.

MR

[jjclyde]

Originally Posted by MR.

Nope, it is Quadrifoglio, but we call it QV because of Quadrifoglio Verde... Verde stands for Green in Italian, and the cloverleaf is green on the sides. Typically Italian. Oh and often we just call it the quattro formaggi, if people don't have a clue what car you are talking about.

MR

I totally get it. My wife is from Italy. QV it is.

[Hegge]

Hey MR., do you have an idea for the price on the M2 CS? Some are now saying $80K, is that true?

[marcusfva]

Originally Posted by jjclyde

And not to argue - but unless I'm mistaken, it's called "Giulia QuadriFoglio". So QF, not QV. Quadrifoglio = four-leaf clover, or cloverleaf - a long time Alfa icon. You're probably thinking QV because of the legacy of the term QuattroValvole - four valve ... and famously the Ferrari 308 Quattrovalvole.

The Giulia is called today just "Quadrifoglio" but it is not a mistake to say QV because it has always the "Quadrifoglio Verde (=green)" badges on its front fenders.

[jjclyde]

Originally Posted by marcusfva

The Giulia is called today just "Quadrifoglio" but it is not a mistake to say QV because it has always the "Quadrifoglio Verde (=green)" badges on its front fenders.

Si, ho capito. I let the engineer in me, and the fact I have a passing command of Italian, make me think that I might know better. But I was wrong, and I didn't. QV it is.

And to return to topic ... MR's portrait of the QV has me thinkng that an M2 CS plus a QV for the wife might be the perfect combo for our garage!

[BlacMacJac]

Originally Posted by MR.

The Giulia QV? I absolutely adore it and fell in love with it the first day I drove one.

would love to consider this car in Dallas, but there is neither a dealer in the Dallas area proper (closest is in a suburb 30 miles north) and because, at the time, only had the one car, wouldn't let me drive it.

I can get over the "can't drive it till we know you're serious" part, but I don't want to worry about having a car from a brand famous for their questionable quality and troubles when my nearest service is a lang haul.

In addition most of the dealers in this state appear to be attached to existing Fiat dealership - which is not the customer service experience I'm expecting for a $70K car. Nope.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by MR.

Here in Czech I got 10% without asking and I could argue for a lot more. I also heard about it in the UK as well... They are dumping them big time. No idea why, but if in the market people are talking about discounts of up to 25% then something is not going well with sales of that model.

MR

Last year 25% no problem in the U.K. I bailed out last minutes on a nice group type deal. BMW UK held supply back a bit it seems this year but discount is coming again.

Same on the M2 actually, I got a little over 12% off my M2. I knew waiting would pay out I'm looking upon my MPerf Zorst fitting as a freebie next month

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Yup, that is a S55. Sounds nearly identical to this M4 GTS testing video.

I thought I smelled a wet fart. The M2 CS is internally code named "The Sharter", verified by BMW Blog.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by Hegge

Hey MR., do you have an idea for the price on the M2 CS? Some are now saying $80K, is that true?

Nope... But take the M4 line up as a comparison and you get close to what they will ask.

MR

[MR.]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Last year 25% no problem in the U.K. I bailed out last minutes on a nice group type deal. BMW UK held supply back a bit it seems this year but discount is coming again.

Same on the M2 actually, I got a little over 12% off my M2. I knew waiting would pay out I'm looking upon my MPerf Zorst fitting as a freebie next month

I got 10% off on my car without asking and I was number 1 in my country. 😉

MR

[MR.]

Originally Posted by BlacMacJac

would love to consider this car in Dallas, but there is neither a dealer in the Dallas area proper (closest is in a suburb 30 miles north) and because, at the time, only had the one car, wouldn't let me drive it.

I can get over the "can't drive it till we know you're serious" part, but I don't want to worry about having a car from a brand famous for their questionable quality and troubles when my nearest service is a lang haul.

In addition most of the dealers in this state appear to be attached to existing Fiat dealership - which is not the customer service experience I'm expecting for a $70K car. Nope.

Then don't do it... The Alfa experience always includes questionable things that might happen, which also has its charm and is part of the passion of driving one. In the end, it is made by Italians not Germans. This comes with great pluses and minuses.

MR

[filet.M2c]

Originally Posted by MR.

Just don't get your hopes up that BMW will start to include every little wish you have. They can't because it is not profitable, and the BMW M management levels have calculators in their hands, not racing gloves and definitely do not look at the heritage of the brand (e.g. M3 CSL) like we do.

The only absolute deal breaker for me with be an omission of a MT. I hope the bean counters are on these forums for market research because I for one will not purchase this car if it comes DCT only and based on the comments here, many seem to have the same mentality.

[SoCalRob]

Originally Posted by synergist

The only absolute deal breaker for me with be an omission of a MT. I hope the bean counters are on these forums for market research because I for one will not purchase this car if it comes DCT only and based on the comments here, many seem to have the same mentality.

Ditto for me. Actually, the more I hear about the M2 CS, the less interested I become. -scr