05-15-2019, 10:54 PM | #45 |
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While I would never buy the Honda for fundamental RWD vs. FWD reasons, the comments like this are killing me.
You guys do realize a Honda engine is currently beating Ferrari in the Formula 1 championship and only behind a pair of Mercedes AMG powered cars, don't you? Let's save the trash talk for when BMW is not too afraid to compete at the highest level of Motorsport. Until then, STFU, please.
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05-15-2019, 10:57 PM | #46 |
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great review...both great cars!
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05-15-2019, 11:13 PM | #47 | |
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also, since Honda has returned to F1, how many DNFs have they had? Alonso had some pretty nice words to say about Honda powerplants over the years.. also your comment about BMW being too scared to compete is absurd. That decision is financially based, as it makes no sense for them to blow millions on F1 Dev when their operating budget is already tight. check your facts |
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05-15-2019, 11:26 PM | #48 |
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I started my HPDE driving and autocross history in 3 Ford SHO's. The last one has a Quaife installed.
I also co-drove a Integra Type R over a 2 season period in SOLO 2. Then 2 RWD BMW M cars and then until just 2 years ago a EVO X and a FR-S. Currently back in a RWD MX-5 RF. FWD just plain sucks gang. I don't give a rats ass what you do to make it torque steer less, how you play around with strange spring rates & sways to compensate for the 60+% over the front axle, or fit a LSD into the transaxle. I just has some plain physics problems: 1)Weight distribution Causes brake bias issues, and interesting mid corner handling dynamics, acceleration, and more... 2) Its FWD..... Torque steer, uneven pavement traction issues under acceleration, and "PUSH" Everywhere. Yes its far easier to drive a LSD FWD car than a RWD car at 10/10's, but it gets boring real fast. At mid corner you simply drive the car using the go pedal, same as an AWD car like the EVO. BORING! 3) My home track is NHMS. T3 is the slowest corner on the track. After braking from over 100MPH down to corner entry speed you hit the bump where the road course leaves the NASCAR oval.... at this point the turn proceeds uphill while still sweeping sharply right. FWD drive cars here get left behind, even with a LSD. Its quite simple physics. OTOH my EVO smoked just about everything it ran with here. You just worked the gas pedal until you were about to drop your LF Tire off the surface. Even that got boring pretty fast. You know what never gets boring? Working a RWD car with good power up that hill using the rear diff and gas pedal. More fun, more challenging, and faster. I'd rather get "pushed" up the hill than "pulled". Or working the diff corner braking at Big Bend at LRP. Honda makes the finest mass produced 4 banger in the world. They have massaged this car and done a damn good job of making the whole pkg work. Food for thought: which car has more room for mods and improvement in both track times and fun? The M2 or M2C. Given a $10K budget for mods the M2 platform will return a bigger return on investment. How much power can the transaxle in the Honda be able to handle under track driving conditions if modded much further than it is now? How long will the motor last running even higher boost numbers than it does now. I ran 28 lbs of peak boost thru my EVO X 2 liter. I had the engine rebuilt twice and heat problems were ALWWAYS a problem on tight tracks. Nope, I will never own a FWD performance car again...And I can say that I've come full circle and left AWD drive as well. Also the Honda is butt ugly. It actually is uglier than a SUBI and that's hard to accomplish. It has more scoops, wings, spoilers and warts than a SUBI. Go figure...It can't take the award away from the Subi for engine and exhaust sounds. Nothing sounds worse than an flat four SUBI a kid has slapped an exhaust on. It sounds like a Singer sewing machine underwater. Peace HAZMAT
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05-15-2019, 11:31 PM | #49 | ||
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Alonso and McLaren were butthurt that they couldn't win and needed someone to blame. How are their results this season with the new Renault power units? Seems Honda has stepped up to the challenge this year while McLaren is still enjoying the taste of shit in their mouth. Cost is no excuse for not wanting to play with the big boys. Gotta pay to play. Sorry you are butthurt as well, Ferrari fanboy! Quit living in the past.
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05-15-2019, 11:52 PM | #50 | ||||||
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05-16-2019, 01:06 AM | #52 | |
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05-16-2019, 01:07 AM | #53 |
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05-16-2019, 06:07 AM | #56 | |||
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Until Honda enters their own factory team and wins anything your argument is silly. The only thing Honda might be able to do well is create an F1 car as ugly as the CTR. |
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05-16-2019, 07:34 AM | #58 | |
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Ignorant Fanboyism on 10
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05-16-2019, 07:40 AM | #59 | |
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Toyota is winning in NASCAR, should we all go buy a Camary over a BMW? Rather buy a car from a company that spends millions bettering their real world cars than one that wastes millions building fantasy cars with fantasy engines that never see the light of day on the road. But hey I hear the Type R got the Teretto letter of approval so you should see it at a Race Wars near you
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05-16-2019, 07:45 AM | #60 |
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someone close this thread. I'm wow'd by the intelligence of fellow board members.
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05-16-2019, 08:08 AM | #61 | |
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In fact, I am really keen to test drive a Civic Type R (FK8) but not that keen to own one due to the taste of exterior design. If Honda can make a proper hatch version without a wing, I'll seriously consider it (now i30 N is definitely more popular in Australia in this segment).
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05-16-2019, 10:07 AM | #62 | |
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Then please explain to everyone in the car world why NOONE, not even professional racing drivers, including from some of the most renowned publications cannot come close to the 7:43 in the stock CTR. |
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05-16-2019, 10:07 AM | #63 |
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I get on the CTR boards and end up defending the M2.
I get on the M2 boards and end up defending the CTR. As a car enthusiast, everyone needs to respect that the CTR is the best in its class (by far) and can punch well above its weight. |
05-16-2019, 10:09 AM | #64 |
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Everyone who owns a CTR here saying throw out your ego and stop being a fanboi...
PLEASE GO CHECK OUT THE CTR FORUM. That'll show you what a fanboi is. They trash on the M2 much much more than we "trash" the R. The truth is the truth. FWD on a sports car is not a great recipe period. Why aren't Ferraris and Porschs and Lambos and Zondas FWD then? |
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05-16-2019, 10:28 AM | #65 | |
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05-16-2019, 10:48 AM | #66 | |
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You guys are missing the point. The comments implying a Honda has no business being compared to another respected enthusiast brand because "it's a Honda" are totally ignorant. Show some respect! Your amateur ignorance is on display as well by your comment, "with fantasy engines that never see the light of day on the road." The Civic Type R engine powers Formula 3 race cars and the K20 powers Formula 4 cars. So yes, their "real world" car engines are closer to racing pedigree than most are even aware of, including you. Sheesh. Bunch of fucking amateurs commenting here.
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Last edited by CP911; 05-16-2019 at 10:55 AM.. |
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