[bruin1md]

Originally Posted by reppucci

I agree with M3 Adjuster that M2 production will be kept low. Not due to production limitations but for the reasons outlined above.

In case anyone wonders about present M2 production rates and if BMW has the ability to increase the production....

Through June 24, 2016 BMW produced a total of 2380 M2's. Almost all MY16. A few were MY17. 723 NA m2; 858 LHD Euro M2; and 799 rhd M2.

In the 25 days from June 1 through June 24, 20% or 476 (133 NA, 236 euro LHD, 107 Euro RHD) of all m2's were produced. Production was stepped up! 1 in 5 of all M2's built were produced in the month of June! These are all also in line for a diff replacement !

That is a production rate of 19.04 m2's coming off the line each day. 6300 M2's could be produced per year based on this past June's production rates; assuming 330 days of production. 6300 is exactly the number of 1m's produced over a bit more than 1 year of production!

Unclear if BMW will keep up this present rate of production. Personally I doubt it will but only time will tell. At this present rate, should M2 production cease in 2018, that would be a total of 15000 M2 units produced worldwide. 6300 MY17, 6300 MY18 and 2380 MY16.

If production goes through 2020 then a total of 27500 M2's could be built assuming this present production rate is sustained.
If you have a MY16 M2.... Hang on to it!!!

I didn't mean to start a dispute with this thread, but most of what's been written thus far in this discussion revolves around speculation.

This post of your is very informative-- and answers the question of whether production is going up. Clearly it is. The question is whether it ceases after 2018 or continues onward.
Either way, the M2 isn't going to be the markedly limited production car the 1M was.

[135iDCT]

Originally Posted by reppucci

I agree with M3 Adjuster that M2 production will be kept low. Not due to production limitations but for the reasons outlined above.

In case anyone wonders about present M2 production rates and if BMW has the ability to increase the production....

Through June 24, 2016 BMW produced a total of 2380 M2's. Almost all MY16. A few were MY17. 723 NA m2; 858 LHD Euro M2; and 799 rhd M2.

In the 25 days from June 1 through June 24, 20% or 476 (133 NA, 236 euro LHD, 107 Euro RHD) of all m2's were produced. Production was stepped up! 1 in 5 of all M2's built were produced in the month of June! These are all also in line for a diff replacement !

That is a production rate of 19.04 m2's coming off the line each day. 6300 M2's could be produced per year based on this past June's production rates; assuming 330 days of production. 6300 is exactly the number of 1m's produced over a bit more than 1 year of production!

Unclear if BMW will keep up this present rate of production. Personally I doubt it will but only time will tell. At this present rate, should M2 production cease in 2018, that would be a total of 15000 M2 units produced worldwide. 6300 MY17, 6300 MY18 and 2380 MY16.

If production goes through 2020 then a total of 27500 M2's could be built assuming this present production rate is sustained.
If you have a MY16 M2.... Hang on to it!!!

Keep in mind the M2 has n55 engine, this engine introduced in 2010 for 2011 models, from 2011 till 2018 (LCI M2) about 8 years, I don't think the M2 will be in production till 2020 with n55 engine, I think 2018 is the last year for the M2, or (I don't think this will happen) use the B58 engine for 2019-2020 models, this step will need a lot of R&D and time!

for example the N54 engine introduced in 2006 for 2007 models, production stops of N54 in 2012, 6 years!

[gmzanatta]

Originally Posted by bruin1md

I didn't mean to start a dispute with this thread, but most of what's been written thus far in this discussion revolves around speculation.

This post of your is very informative-- and answers the question of whether production is going up. Clearly it is. The question is whether it ceases after 2018 or continues onward.
Either way, the M2 isn't going to be the markedly limited production car the 1M was.

No, his post doesn't answer the question at all and can be taken the wrong way, starting misinformation.

BMW is NOT ramping up M2 production. They simply made more in that one short period. What he forgot to mention is that they then STOPPED MAKING M2's for three weeks after that peak , which is some very important information. If you account for the stoppage, overall production numbers go back to normal, with 5 to 6 cars per day off the line. They simply boosted production to account for the stoppage caused by the differential issue.

They would never be able to sustain 19 M2's a day for prolonged operation.

[reppucci]

Originally Posted by bim2er

While the numbers in June were a significant increase, we don't know if other models were displaced and, therefore, if the June levels will be sustainable.

Totally agree that BMW will probably not sustain this rate of 19 M2's per day; but this is pure speculation on my part; time will tell.

Point of my post was to highlight that BMW has the ability to really pump out M2's if it wishes to!

I do believe, as outlined on previous posts discussions and debates by M3 Adjuster and others, that despite "high demand and interest" BMW will throttle M2 availability to allow more "profitable" vehicles through the Leipzig facility.

BMW's profit margin on each M2 doesn't seem to provide an incentive for increased production numbers.

[reppucci]

Originally Posted by gmzanatta

No, his post doesn't answer the question at all and can be taken the wrong way, starting misinformation.

BMW is NOT ramping up M2 production. They simply made more in that one short period. What he forgot to mention is that they then STOPPED MAKING M2's for three weeks after that peak , which is some very important information. If you account for the stoppage, overall production numbers go back to normal, with 5 to 6 cars per day off the line. They simply boosted production to account for the stoppage caused by the differential issue.

They would never be able to sustain 19 M2's a day for prolonged operation.

BMW actually started to boost M2 production in May. The month of may 500 M2's were produced so from May 1 through June 24 975 M2's produced!

Also this production was not increased to offset the diff issue. It was started before the diff issue came to light.

From June 24 through July 11 NO m2's were produced. (EDIT OUT....I assume the production numbers for July are also low). I initially suspected the stoppage was for MY16-17 conversion at the plant. It may have been due to M differentials not being available. At least 359 M2's produced in July from July11-July30. This is not a final number for July production.

gmzanatta is correct! I do not wish for this data to be misinterpreted. We can all speculate as to what BMW will do. I have stated my belief on that above in another post.

I just wish to underscore that BMW can increase M2 production if it wishes too and I wanted to provide proof of that!

[reppucci]

Originally Posted by bruin1md

I didn't mean to start a dispute with this thread, but most of what's been written thus far in this discussion revolves around speculation.

This post of your is very informative-- and answers the question of whether production is going up. Clearly it is.

Fact; BMW increased production rate in May and June 2016; I do not have final July numbers but there are at a minimum 359 M2's built in July despite the stoppage.

Originally Posted by bruin1md

The question is whether it ceases after 2018 or continues onward.
Either way, the M2 isn't going to be the markedly limited production car the 1M was.

Speculation as to the final production number but I do agree M2 production will surpass the 6300 1m's produced. By how much? Speculation!!!

[bruin1md]

Originally Posted by gmzanatta

No, his post doesn't answer the question at all and can be taken the wrong way, starting misinformation.

BMW is NOT ramping up M2 production. They simply made more in that one short period. What he forgot to mention is that they then STOPPED MAKING M2's for three weeks after that peak , which is some very important information. If you account for the stoppage, overall production numbers go back to normal, with 5 to 6 cars per day off the line. They simply boosted production to account for the stoppage caused by the differential issue.

They would never be able to sustain 19 M2's a day for prolonged operation.

Understood.

Either way, I'm keeping my order in place and hope I actually get it on time in November (Sept allocation/October production).

[Verdi]

Had my M2 for sale briefly. A car dealer wanted to buy it for his showroom and adviced me to sell fast because "M sales persons he knew said that if you order an M2 now you will have it by the end of THIS year".

That would really be sensational. I haven't been able to figure out if he was speaking the truth or just wanted me to accept his rather poor offer.

I do have another M2 on order but haven't heard anything from my salesman about this cut in waiting time. So I don't know.

[bruin1md]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Had my M2 for sale briefly. A car dealer wanted to buy it for his showroom and adviced me to sell fast because "M sales persons he knew said that if you order an M2 now you will have it by the end of THIS year".

That would really be sensational. I haven't been able to figure out if he was speaking the truth or just wanted me to accept his rather poor offer.

I do have another M2 on order but haven't heard anything from my salesman about this cut in waiting time. So I don't know.

I guess it depends on if the order actually goes in as they say in September (that's when my local dealership gets their allocation slot)......if so, they claim BMW will build the car in October and it will be ready for November.

Is that timeline typical ASSUMING accuracy of the above time slots?

[zenmaster]

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't keep the latest production rate.

[WFS]

In answer to the original question no one knows.

Why they would
-they will sell every one they make
-great halo car
-giving people what they want
-they pumped lots of money into the m performance range. Carbon and exhausts etc ( it's a new market of manufacturer backed modding)


Why they wouldn't
-want to upsell/down sell ppl into more profitable cars m240 / m4
-copy Porsche in the gt4
-it was a great car to launch on the centenary
-costs more to produce


But I guess the choice is theirs. My personal opinion is this is one of the most fun cars I've had and I hope all the petrol heads that want one get one. Yes it would be nice if mine would go up in value like the m1, but there is no pockets in shrouds/ we can't take the cash with us.

Just get out and drive the hell out of them before we are all confined to boring autonomous cars

[Lp01]

Originally Posted by Thespaz18

Using this reasoning, would you say that reasonable dealer mark ups over MSRP are justified and should be accepted by the consumer?

Very hard question to answer. It all depends on your beliefs.

If you are a true liberal that thinks free markets and free trade is all humankind needs, the answer would be: yes it is legitimate for a dealer to do it. Prices are public. Who is buying knows the standard prices and if is willing to pay more in order to have a certain good sooner... Why not? Successful trading (and pricing) is nothing more than extracting the maximum consummer surplus (which equals to driving each individual to pay for the maximum he/she would be willing for that particular good).

If, on the other hand, you think business and life is more than unregulated (or lightly regulated) markets, and ethics should somehow put a limit on what is reasonable to do in order to take advantage of a person's desires and wishes, than the answer is no ... Dealers should not do it. We can't (or we shouldn't) make of every transaction an auction.

What would you do if you were a dealer? And if you were a major shareholder from bmw?

[gmzanatta]

Originally Posted by Lp01

If, on the other hand, you think business and life is more than unregulated (or lightly regulated) markets, and ethics should somehow put a limit on what is reasonable to do in order to take advantage of a person's desires and wishes...

Might as well start looking for another planet The word 'ethics' left the human vocabulary a few thousand years ago.

[Lp01]

Originally Posted by sarcastrix

There's no way production can increase UNLESS demand falls for other models built at Leipzig - 750 of the total 850 daily output are 1er & 2er and with current BMW sales records being beaten almost monthly, I can't see that happening.

Models built at Leipzig:
BMW 1 Series (five-door)
BMW 2 Series Coupé
BMW 2 Series Convertible
BMW M2 Coupé
BMW 2 Series Active Tourer
BMW i3 Series
BMW i8 Series

This is true if, and only if, the profit from an M2 is much lower than the profit from other models. Otherwise, given the low volumes when compared with other cars, it would be a "no brain" increasing production while lowering by a very small percentage all other models.

Having said that, many people say that brands like porsche and bmw subsidize the real sports cars with sales from "lower" models (like cayennes and macans in porsche's case). This would mean that profit on these special models is lower than average, what would support a non increase in production scenario...

Edit: typos...

[Lp01]

Originally Posted by gmzanatta

Might as well start looking for another planet The word 'ethics' left the human vocabulary a few thousand years ago.

There's a few of us here... I know a couple, although I have to admit it is a progressively rarer breed... Endangered and on the brink of extintion, possibly.

[gmzanatta]

Originally Posted by Lp01

This is true if, and only if, the profit from an M2 is much lower than the profit from other models. Otherwise, given the low volumes whem compared with other cars it would be a no brain increasing production while lowering by a very small percentage all other models.

Having said that, many people says that brands like porsche and bmw subsidize the real sports cars with sales from "lower" models (like cayenes and macans in porsche's case). This would mean that profit on these special models is lower than average, what would support a non increase in production scenario...

The M2 is borderline, if not actually, a loss-leader. Profit from it is lower than all of the listed cars, and according to my GM when we were chatting a great many moons ago, the lowest profit car they ever sold.

[PhilL]

Originally Posted by Lp01

This is true if, and only if, the profit from an M2 is much lower than the profit from other models. Otherwise, given the low volumes when compared with other cars, it would be a "no brain" increasing production while lowering by a very small percentage all other models.

Having said that, many people say that brands like porsche and bmw subsidize the real sports cars with sales from "lower" models (like cayennes and macans in porsche's case). This would mean that profit on these special models is lower than average, what would support a non increase in production scenario...

Edit: typos...

Also from a sales perspective I suspect those waiting for an M2 would be more likely to stomach a longer lead time than those shopping for say, a 2 series Active Tourer before they take their business elsewhere.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by gmzanatta

The M2 is borderline, if not actually, a loss-leader. Profit from it is lower than all of the listed cars, and according to my GM when we were chatting a great many moons ago, the lowest profit car they ever sold.

It's funny how the last two decades BMW fans have cried and whined that

The company " lost its way "
They no longer make good M cars
The cars sell for too much
Why don't they make a car for the sports car people with all the profits they make off cars like the X1...

Finally BMW does make a car for enthusiasts , at a low price point , that's a truly stellar M car, and apparently people also expect them to pump them out like E36 M3 and also sell them for pennies on the dollar.

That's just crazy talk. Get in where you fit in.


As far as I am concerned it simply shows that the 1M was the first of the loss leaders that BMW pushed out for enthusiasts.

Buy an M2 now if you want one, and enjoy it. Of course they will make more than the 1M, but smart buyers will recognize that the production numbers of 2 series models will not be large and the M2 over time will be just as rare as the following " not limited " cars

s54 z3m
S54 mz4
E30 M3
Z8

How are all those cars doing in the used market these days ??

[neckthrough]

Source: http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...o-so-so-great/

Originally Posted by Road and Track

After talking to the head of the M2 project, Frank Isenberg, I was reassured that the M2 is here to stay. As a product, it costs them next to nothing in research and development since they use existing technologies, and as long as BMW continues to make M3s and M4s, it'll make M2s with rear-wheel drive and a manual gearbox as standard as long as every fifth M2 customer wants to choose that.

[mrcheezle19]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

It's funny how the last two decades BMW fans have cried and whined that

The company " lost its way "
They no longer make good M cars
The cars sell for too much
Why don't they make a car for the sports car people with all the profits they make off cars like the X1...

Finally BMW does make a car for enthusiasts , at a low price point , that's a truly stellar M car, and apparently people also expect them to pump them out like E36 M3 and also sell them for pennies on the dollar.

That's just crazy talk. Get in where you fit in.

How are all those cars doing in the used market these days ??

The price is totally fine with me, I just want to be able to get one sooner than 16 months lol. Hell it's easier getting a damn 350R than a M2 right now.

[Makman]

Originally Posted by 135iDCT

Keep in mind the M2 has n55 engine, this engine introduced in 2010 for 2011 models, from 2011 till 2018 (LCI M2) about 8 years, I don't think the M2 will be in production till 2020 with n55 engine, I think 2018 is the last year for the M2, or (I don't think this will happen) use the B58 engine for 2019-2020 models, this step will need a lot of R&D and time!

for example the N54 engine introduced in 2006 for 2007 models, production stops of N54 in 2012, 6 years!

this N55 is specially developed, its not just copy paste from a regular 35i for example. The new engine I assume would have to be tested and developed espacially for the M2 which adds more development-costs to the M2, and we all know how cheap they were with that (*lol*M-mirrors*lol*).

I think the this N55 can do four production years without any problem.

edit: If they continue to produce the M2 until 2020 it will be with the current engine.

[blackholescion]

Originally Posted by mrcheezle19

The price is totally fine with me, I just want to be able to get one sooner than 16 months lol. Hell it's easier getting a damn 350R than a M2 right now.

If you want to pay 20k+ ADM. I bet if you paid that 20k ADM, a dealer would bend over backwards to sell you their M2.