[W///]

Originally Posted by kwsw

LOL at all these people bickering about the stitching on a seat in a pre production interior of a test car

While I am sick of the bitch fest, those are the final production seats. Why would they add contrast stitching then? For fun?

[W///]

Originally Posted by Swiss Chris

Just what I tried to explain 10 pages ago, but only a few people here seem to understand the difference between serial and optional Equipment.

It also looks impossible for those people to understand that maybe some people want an M2 because they prefer it over the M4 and not (or not only) because the M2 is cheaper.

When I see how lots of 1M's look today (in Switerland, Germany, USA...) loaded with special wheels, Recaro seats, carbone everywhere, KW suspensions, 400+hp prepared engines, Akrapovic Evolution... Seems clear to me that the only goal of the owners was to have a cheap ///M

Some even told me it was impossible for BMW to add on the M2 some equipments available on the M4. Sure it's too complicate for a company as BMW, in 2015, to plug M4 seats or CCB brakes on the M2

Then why don't you do the same thing as those guys and add it afterwards? What you are asking for (and might not get) is so bloody basic with enough money. It's not like we are talking about an s63 swap.

With all due respect, only a few people seem to understand manufacturing process and what it costs. On one hand, you got the majority of guys saying that this cannot (and should not) be priced near an M3. On the other hand, you've got a minority of guys such as yourself that do not care about price. Adding options and development work adds to the base price, can we at least agree on that?

If this still doesn't make sense to you, then I don't know what to tell you. Sounds like common sense to me.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by W///

Then why don't you do the same thing as those guys and add it afterwards? What you are asking for (and might not get) is so bloody basic with enough money. It's not like we are talking about an s63 swap.

With all due respect, only a few people seem to understand manufacturing process and what it costs. On one hand, you got the majority of guys saying that this cannot (and should not) be priced near an M3. On the other hand, you've got a minority of guys such as yourself that do not care about price. Adding options and development work adds to the base price, can we at least agree on that?

If this still doesn't make sense to you, then I don't know what to tell you. Sounds like common sense to me.

It costs BMW money not just to engineer components and/or systems, but also costs money to implement them as well. The car is an operating system. Not just a collective bunch of operating parts. Even minor changes will lead to a fair amount of testing and development to make sure the car performs coehisvely. I feel many on here are confused as to why BMW can't just pop certain features in for free. That's just not how the engineering world works.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

It costs BMW money not just to engineer components and/or systems, but also costs money to implement them as well. The car is an operating system. Not just a collective bunch of operating parts. Even minor changes will lead to a fair amount of testing and development to make sure the car performs coehisvely. I feel many on here are confused as to why BMW can't just pop certain features in for free. That's just not how the bean counting world works.

Fixed it for you.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

It costs BMW money not just to engineer components and/or systems, but also costs money to implement them as well. The car is an operating system. Not just a collective bunch of operating parts. Even minor changes will lead to a fair amount of testing and development to make sure the car performs coehisvely. I feel many on here are confused as to why BMW can't just pop certain features in for free. That's just not how the engineering world works.

Yup, exactly. Not to mention the take rate on an M2 CCB would be pretty low I would imagine. Hell, we don't even know, it might be offered. Let's make a big deal about absolutely everything.

Anyway, I think I'm done with this "interior" thread. It has run its course. Wake me up when we find out if they skimped out on the M3/4 EPS

[gtaM2]

Originally Posted by Spook410

'Executive car'? Umm.. no. This is a 2 series. Young professionals and all that. This is the entry level car. If you're looking to impress the non-initiated with your financial wherewithal this isn't the right car. Much of the value is hidden to all but the enthusiast and Buffy just isn't going to get it.
.

thats exactly the car that im looking for, i want most of the "bling" to be in the experience of the drive

[PackPride85]

I think it pretty much comes down to this. If you weren't impressed with the value of the 1M, the M2 is not for you. If you are looking for a mini M3/M4, you'll have to go for the real deal.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

And my point is there are obviously many cars aimed at those who want the purest driving experience for cheaper. It's even more unreasonable to expect a BMW to be a purely driver's car these days than it is to expect them to be aesthetically pleasing - M or not. You're paying a premium for the car but are OK with them delivering something you can probably get for cheaper. That's your choice and I'm fine with it, but some of us expect it to still be a premium executive car at $60k. There's nothing "entry-level" about a $60k car. That ship sailed $40,000 ago. So, yeah if I'm paying that, the last thing I want is for someone to step into my car and be like, "ehhh you paid how much for this?" Just being honest.

Understood.

My closing statement: I think me and most can accept the interior they put in it if they get the driving right.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by Spook410

'Executive car'? Umm.. no. This is a 2 series. Young professionals and all that. This is the entry level car. If you're looking to impress the non-initiated with your financial wherewithal this isn't the right car. Much of the value is hidden to all but the enthusiast and Buffy just isn't going to get it.

At the other end of the spectrum, like many, the only time mine would see a track is on special open track days. Still, fast on backroads, up/down the local mountain, and long-legged desert runs may make it worth the price of admission. And I'm starting to wonder about what magic could happen with a slightly lighter car. Nothing like a little blind optimism..

Agree- the value proposition in this car will not be its ability to impress. Most of the expensive bits are hidden. Give me magnesium suspension and cloth seats.

[Anderw]

Originally Posted by W///

While I am sick of the bitch fest, those are the final production seats. Why would they add contrast stitching then? For fun?

Maybe they'll see this thread and add the stitching, since apparently it's a big deal

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by Spook410

'Executive car'? Umm.. no. This is a 2 series. Young professionals and all that. This is the entry level car. If you're looking to impress the non-initiated with your financial wherewithal this isn't the right car. Much of the value is hidden to all but the enthusiast and Buffy just isn't going to get it.

I should have said "premium" instead of executive. Bad choice of words, but I stand by the idea that a car this expensive, where we are paying a premium not just for the driving dynamics, but for a total package, should look the part. The M235i looks the part of a $50k BMW - there's no reason the M2 should be a step backward in aesthetic appeal, inside or out.

[raysspl]

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

I think it pretty much comes down to this. If you weren't impressed with the value of the 1M, the M2 is not for you. If you are looking for a mini M3/M4, you'll have to go for the real deal.

Exactly - the price point of an M3/4, P Car, Merc AMG, Jag, etc. is such that you expect additional creature comforts that compliment the added performance.

The M2 is roughly half that equation, just like the 1M - you get 90% of the performance and some visual separation.

[Spook410]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

<snip>The M235i looks the part of a $50k BMW - there's no reason the M2 should be a step backward in aesthetic appeal, inside or out.

A more than reasonable expectation. I would expect to see all the normal M232 premium bits and maybe a few nice M racy touches inside. I don't expect it will approach the M3/M4 interior. That would be nice for those that want that but I would prefer the lower cost achieved by not engineering that solution.

The outside looks like it will have aesthetic appeal in that it conveys 'fast' very well.

[marcva]

Actually, the 2 series has the same dimensions as the e36 iirc. Lots of students and instructors I see at schools driving one of those two cars.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Db750

Have't read through the whole thread so this may have been said, but I'll post my thoughts:

1. Love the DCT; that will be a huge upgrade over the 8AT.
2. The steering wheel looks the same just with different stitching. Not that this is a bad thing as I love the wheel in my 2, but with past M cars it was always upgraded over the M-sport wheel.

Edit 2: went back and looked again and the steering wheel does have the paddles from the other M's and not the ones from the 235, so hopefully it will be dct!

3. The seats look the same, but of course the stitching is different, and it does look like maybe a softer leather which would be very nice. The 235 seats are good, but they are not great, so I would love to see upgraded seats on the final version.
4. The centre console trim, if you look to where it gets skinny right below where it meets the dash board, it appears to have some type of carbon fiber weave the way the light is reflecting off it.

Very, very excited for this car, just hope BMW makes it special enough so that there is no way M235i owners can justify not upgrading!

Edit: just read that it may not be a dct knob. That would be a big blow to the appeal of this car for me.

Wow interesting statement. I think you will likely find this not the case.

to be perfectly honest .....it will be a a struggle for an m235 owner to justify an M2. The same way that 135 owners struggled with this when the 1M came out.... the same way that 335 owners struggle with the decision to move to M3 .. it's been this way all the way back to the e30 325 vs the E30 M3.


In so many of these situations, the owner of the underlying model feels the cost is not justified for the higher model and then modifies their car. Hence so many people that modify their lower model up to the same level or beyond the M car ...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I should have said "premium" instead of executive. Bad choice of words, but I stand by the idea that a car this expensive, where we are paying a premium not just for the driving dynamics, but for a total package, should look the part. The M235i looks the part of a $50k BMW - there's no reason the M2 should be a step backward in aesthetic appeal, inside or out.

Clearly this is an opinion that BMW AG does not share with you.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Diver

If the M2 drives like the 1M, the complaints are going to evaporate fast.

And the simple fact is that they aren't going to make enough of them for the whiners to really matter. The ones that want it will get it ..

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by bobloblaw

How is it unreasonable to want M seats and MDCT in an M car? I agree that if people are expecting a CF roof and driveshaft or something they will probably be disappointed, but I mean I don't think wanting M seats is unreasonable at all.

Please define " M Seats ... " What other M cars are they in? Oh.,, are you
referring to M4 seats ?

Guess what... When you get an M2 with a seat that has a blue stitching on it .. You will have an M seat. An M2 seat. And no one said it had to be the same seat as in an F80 or an X5M that costs half again or double as much as M2.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by W///

Yup, exactly. Not to mention the take rate on an M2 CCB would be pretty low I would imagine. Hell, we don't even know, it might be offered. Let's make a big deal about absolutely everything.

Anyway, I think I'm done with this "interior" thread. It has run its course. Wake me up when we find out if they skimped out on the M3/4 EPS

It's really painful to watch this all happen a second time ...

[bobloblaw]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Please define " M Seats ... " What other M cars are they in? Oh.,, are you
referring to M4 seats ?

Guess what... When you get an M2 with a seat that has a blue stitching on it .. You will have an M seat. An M2 seat. And no one said it had to be the same seat as in an F80 or an X5M that costs half again or double as much as M2.

By M seat I mean seats that aren't in non-M cars. Again, I don't see how this is an outlandish desire.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by bobloblaw

By M seat I mean seats that aren't in non-M cars. Again, I don't see how this is an outlandish desire.

*Wanting* seats from the 65K M3/M4 and 110K X5/6m is not an outlandish desire.. ( It also can be resolved by retrofitting them into the M2... If at all possible ...)


Based on all the spyshot and insider information to date... Including a clear precedent in the 1M... *Expecting* to see bespoke seats in the M2, however IS an outlandish desire.

The simple fact *is* that BMW does not price or build their cars like Porsche who will let the customer (read: dealer) customize a vehicle to their hearts content by selecting zillions of options.


They don't offer three options of seats, the ability to match your steering wheel Trim to your seats , and they don't offer your choice of colors ( unless Individual is available... Which .. Of course isn't available on all models ! ). All of this means that as a customer... You are getting less options but a better value and a far more consistent price point from buyer to buyer... You won't be walking onto a lot and seeing an M2 optioned up to 89K.

The 1M was priced from 46-54k in the US. That's it. I expect the M2 to range from around 52k to 60k Max. The 1M was nicknamed baby M because it's a little brother to the M3 and I bet that carriers over to the M2. It's pretty clear from the beginning that the M2, like the 1M, will have some cost saving measures versus the M3/M4.


If that rankles you, and makes this car
"not an M car " in your mind, then you will likely miss out on a very special car.
However, you can certainly go drop about 70-80K on a Cayman S or an M3/M4 and be very happy..


Be happy , go get one sooner than you can get an M2 !