[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Corinne

Indeed, however BMW must have someone who intimately surveys the forums which discuss their cars... and one might well assume that he is the chosen incumbent. In that case, we might wonder why certain very important complaints circulating on this forum (and other forums) such as unreadable instrument panels, soda can crunch, BMW badges dropping off, no sunroof in the USA, no oil temperature gauge, irritating reversing sensor, no switching off of the throttle blip without switching off the safety devices, armrest slider, badly situated door pulls, long clutch travel, too high gearing on 6th gear on 6MT, go unfixed... (sorry Scott - nothing personal !)

Because people want the car anyway. The M2 didn't turn out to be the type of car sitting for a long period of time on a dealer lot with a "For Sale" sign.

But, true, for example Porsche is more eager to iron out niggles in order to permanently perfect their cars. They care about being the best and remaining the best. And this approach pays off: it's the most profitable car manufacturer in the world and considered in a recent survey to be the most prestigious luxury automobile brand. Client care matters.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Sometimes.

Actually.. while I haven't been counting.. nor do I plan to.. I think he is right more often than wrong.
I would amend this to ... " Most of the time"... (definitely not all the time)

Originally Posted by Artemis

Correct that "CS" is supposed to become a new BMW M category (sub brand, special series, etc.: you name it). I believe to have read last year that BMW has taken legal steps to protect "M2 CS", "M4 CS", etc. (remember Porsche forcing Aston Martin to cease and desist the use of "GT3" for the Vantage, so Aston Martin changed the name to "Vantage GT12": http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...e-vantage-gt3/).

Feel free to read again what Scott26 mentioned in the past hinting to this, as compiled in this post: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...5#post19427255

thanks for reposting this... I don't have the time to search for his hints.. but I do pay attention to them!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by M3-Mike

I have a deposit down on both a regular M2 and an M2 CS. Will be using as daily driver with some track days throw in. Any thoughts on how the CS would behave as a DD? A GTS would be fully track right?

there has not been a BMW made that would not behave well as a DD.

That's kinda their deal..

BMWs are most often compared to Porsches... And Porsche does NOT necessarily carry this mantra of daily usability like BMW does... this is why most BMWs are considered to be sports sedans or coupes and not considered to be exotic cars. It's also why.. when compared on track.. that Porsches are often superior because they are generally less usable than a BMW when it comes to daily use.

The BMW M4 GTS is the most trackworthy machine from BMW to date..
Slap some all season tires on it or winter tires if you really wanted to do so... and you could drive it 365 days.
Not many owners would do so.. but there is a fellow in Chicago that will be daily driving his M4 GTS thru 3 seasons..

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by bim2er

You can't always get what you want.........

But if you try sometimes, well you might find.... you get what you need !

classic Rolling stones..

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Gatte

But the official reveal of the M4 LCI does not point to any power bump.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1344241

Because the quote was likely no reference to the M4 LCI but to the next gen M3/M4.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by c63er

In regards to the "CS" vs "csl" debate, the answer is quite obvious.

The answer is in the successful model carved out by mercedes and porsche. Mercedes' paradigm fits a bit better since the cars are similar and bmw is too conservative so they will copy the sure bet.

The model is: amg > amg S > amg black series

Bmw m > m cs > m gts

(Gts not csl. No confusion between them. No confusion between amg s and vlack series).

But at the same time it leaves the door open for parallel variants (not necessarily better or worse ). For example amg gtr vs gtc vs potential black series. Bmw is not up to the parallel model stage as mercedes and porsche are, but this new system allows it if necessary. Ie bmw m2 cs-r and m2 cs-i could both be similar priced but have different equipment for different customers (not necessarily better or worse), say one is electric and the other naturally aspirated for example (a dream . Point is the naming system allows for possibilities.

It should also make enthusiasts happy. Regular m3 for all the pain in the ass idiots who buy an m car because of the name or want to color it pink and purple with 30" wheels to have their own special rolling marker of low self esteem

Then a CS for the enthusiasts who enjoy driving and all that goes with that. For about 1/3 of this forum and the people populating threads like this one.

Then a gts for the truly wealthy who want to track or just say they own the pinnacle.

This is not absolute and there is a lot of crossover but it is a good general structure

I am so tired of the Luxo types that complain about the M2 interior not being plush enough.. I would rather see someone put 30" anodized pink wheels on it than turn it into a luxury car with extended leather blah blah blah.

After creating tons of niche models (hatchbacks, GTs.. gran coupes.. active tourers.. SAVs..crossovers etc) a proliferation of ENTHUSIAST models is certainly needed and needed in exactly this format as you described.

HOT.. (m2) PIPING HOT. M2 CS) .. blazing hot (M2 GTS)

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

This is what I am saying though - you want a M2 GTS, not a CS. I agree with you 100%.

But if you want to daily the car, you can't really make the M2 much more track capable than the stock car without significantly impacting daily driving comfort.

I think you are wrong on this.. you are underestimating other BMW enthusiasts.. and clearly this same methodology
works for Porsche. Mercedes.. Ford Mustang./Focus ... and Goldilocks.. let the customer can decide what is " just right.."

[Artemis]

Interesting to notice that, apart from the M2 CS test mule, BMW also continues to test the M2 LCI.

Ask yourself, if it were just for the LED lights (front & rear), I guess only few test sessions are necessary, as those have also been tested on the 2er. And during the September 2016 Nürburgring test session(s) (see for example here) the M2 test mules did not even feature yet changed lights.

So, further improving of the cooling system, brakes, suspension, exhaust, etc. ?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by bim2er

This is a picture of one of the sixty M4 CS models sold in Spain last year.

Guessing that a version of this front lip design could make it to the M2 CS.

That is not a "true" CS. The competition package is not offered as an option in Spain. What they did instead is offer a limited run of the CP, loaded it with off the shelf M-Performance parts and called it a CS. This is not a "BMW AG" product per se but rather a "BMW Spain" constructed product for local market offering.

That front lip is just the standard M-Performance lip for the M3/4.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by desertfox73

If this thing comes with the 2002 Hommage wheels, I will give up exactly one nut for it.

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

On the same boat...man they are pretty! Probably a pipe dream...

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

If you like them then they may come...

Originally Posted by bim2er

I think they look great.
I am not sure I would like keeping them clean.

The BMW GT6 Vision Concept wheels ain't bad either.









And you know what, they exist already IRL: as a matter of fact, those wheels are the 2er M Performance wheels (19" forged light alloy wheels - presented in Autumn 2013) painted all black, featuring a red colored rim protector. Unfortunately not with 'all black' or 'all gunmetal' finish.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by bim2er

This is a picture of one of the sixty M4 CS models sold in Spain last year.
Guessing that a version of this front lip design could make it to the M2 CS.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That is not a "true" CS. The competition package is not offered as an option in Spain. What they did instead is offer a limited run of the CP, loaded it with off the shelf M-Performance parts and called it a CS. This is not a "BMW AG" product per se but rather a "BMW Spain" constructed product for local market offering.
That front lip is just the standard M-Performance lip for the M3/4.

AFAIK "M2 CS" stands for "M2 ClubSport", rather than "M2 Competition Sport". Though forum fellow ynguldyn reported that he has seen "Competition" surfacing too:

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

December 2016
* Did I say "M2 CS" in my previous update? I meant "M2 Competition," of course. Sorry.
About the S55-equipped M2: it's actually unclear, what it'll get as the official name. There are "M2 CS", "M2 Cs", and "M2 Competition" mentioned. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But even if it's the latter, it won't be the equivalent of M2 with ZCP: remember, it's a totally different engine, not an ECU reflash like ZCP does. And yes, in the US it will be MY2019.

The Spanish 2016 "M4 CS" (only 60 cars) stands for "M4 Competition Sport": comparable to the M4 ZCP though also comes stock with carbon ceramic brakes, a carbon wing on the back and various other carbon-fiber elements.

[technik330]

If BMW can do what Porsche did with the 911R, we'll have a real winner.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I am so tired of the Luxo types that complain about the M2 interior not being plush enough.. I would rather see someone put 30" anodized pink wheels on it than turn it into a luxury car with extended leather blah blah blah.

After creating tons of niche models (hatchbacks, GTs.. gran coupes.. active tourers.. SAVs..crossovers etc) a proliferation of ENTHUSIAST models is certainly needed and needed in exactly this format as you described.

HOT.. (m2) PIPING HOT. M2 CS) .. blazing hot (M2 GTS)



I think you are wrong on this.. you are underestimating other BMW enthusiasts.. and clearly this same methodology
works for Porsche. Mercedes.. Ford Mustang./Focus ... and Goldilocks.. let the customer can decide what is " just right.."

How am I wrong about this when in the very same post you are complaining about all the cupcake BMW owners that bitch about interior quality?

Let's face it, the vast majority of M car owners will never hit the track and prefer luxury over sport. Me and you aren't like that, but we aren't like most people.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

How am I wrong about this when in the very same post you are complaining about all the fellow cupcake BMW owners that bitch about interior quality?

Let's face it, the vast majority of M car owners will never hit the track and prefer luxury over sport. Me and you aren't like that, but we aren't like most people.

Lol. Well the cupcake guys are already trying to dumb down the CS.. so we definitely need a little more separation.... GTS for the win !

Would be awesome if BMW would roll out the M2 safety car with manual seats, manual gearbox only and call it the M2 GTS.

Limit it to 500 worldwide and send half to the US.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Lol. Well the cupcake guys are already trying to dumb down the CS.. so we definitely need a little more separation.... GTS for the win !

Would be awesome if BMW would roll out the M2 safety car with manual seats, manual gearbox only and call it the M2 GTS.

Limit it to 500 worldwide and send half to the US.

Manual gearbox would be fun but to be honest I get just as much enjoyment from rapid fire DCT downshifts on track under heavy braking. As a BMW enthusiast I would like:

M2 GTS
3000lbs
425hp tuned N55 (in other words, upgrade the damn HPFP)
Manual bucket seats
Half cage
Carbon driveshaft
Adjustable two way coilovers with a selection of spring rates
More aggressively tuned DCT transmission (make it like PDK where it shifts the same speed regardless of throttle input)
Steel brakes with stiffer calipers and better cooling
Adjustable front splitter and rear wing

In other words, I want a M2 that can compete with the GT4! Will never happen, sadly. That's why I have to build it myself.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Will never happen, sadly. That's why I have to build it myself.

For fueling, will you be replacing the stock system or supplementing?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

How am I wrong about this when in the very same post you are complaining about all the cupcake BMW owners that bitch about interior quality?
Let's face it, the vast majority of M car owners will never hit the track and prefer luxury over sport. Me and you aren't like that, but we aren't like most people.

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Lol. Well the cupcake guys are already trying to dumb down the CS.. so we definitely need a little more separation.... GTS for the win !
Would be awesome if BMW would roll out the M2 safety car with manual seats, manual gearbox only and call it the M2 GTS.
Limit it to 500 worldwide and send half to the US.

The future may tell whether the past has been repeated:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4v...mw-m3-csl_auto

[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

If you like them then they may come...

Please don't be messing with us...

[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

These wheels are over-complicated...

So is Chinese writing, but it's also stunningly beautiful!

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Limit it to 500 worldwide and send half to the US.

Just 500 ??
What did we ever do to you man ???

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by desertfox73

So is Chinese writing, but it's also stunningly beautiful!

These look more like a Japanese origami than Chinese writings... Still over complicated IMO...

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

These wheels are over-complicated...

I agree. Personally not digging the BMW 2002 Hommage wheels. Leave that for sketches, design studies or cartoons.

Wheel designs à la E46 M3 CSL or E82 1M / E92 M3 ZCP/GTS: now we're talking.

[bimmer4life24]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Interesting to notice that, apart from the M2 CS test mule, BMW also continues to test the M2 LCI.

Ask yourself, if it were just for the LED lights (front & rear), I guess only few test sessions are necessary, as those have also been tested on the 2er. And during the September 2016 Nürburgring test session(s) (see for example here) the M2 test mules did not even feature yet changed lights.

So, further improving of the cooling system, brakes, suspension, exhaust, etc. ?

B58?