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      12-01-2017, 10:27 AM   #1189
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I can't wait for BMW to make this official - just so all of the back and fourth about these rumors will die!

(yes - it's all rumors until BMW makes an announcement. I don't care who is or isn't an "insider").
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      12-01-2017, 11:25 AM   #1190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m20e3087 View Post
It's December 1st, give us some updates BMW.
You will not hear much for months, so just chill and wait...

Quote:
Originally Posted by as7920 View Post
I would expect some US peeps have been given a closed room preview of the US Spec production M2 Competitions with known VINs during the LA show.

I believe some of these types of cars (not M2) have been snapped in transit in the past. Hopefully this may happen around now?
Only BMW US officials perhaps... Not even sure this even happened or would happen.

MR
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      12-01-2017, 12:29 PM   #1191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
You will not hear much for months, so just chill and wait...



Only BMW US officials perhaps... Not even sure this even happened or would happen.

MR
Scott26 has previously suggested this does happen. I believe it's happened at Geneva and possibly Belgium.

And yes, BMW dealers/employees and bigwigs. Wouldn't expect anyone else TBH.
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      12-02-2017, 09:18 AM   #1192
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We've already seen views from VIN land showing the shape of new side mirrors for the M2 Competition (see here) and hinting to optional different back seats (see here).

Detail: it appears that recently the shape of the glass inside the side mirrors has been added.

For the rest: no info surfaced yet about the M2 Competition reveal. Forum fellow MR. quoted January/February 2018 for release + presentation in March 2018 during the Geneva International Motor Show (see here). The 1M was revealed late Autumn 2010 (BMW 1M press release: Dec 10, 2010). Autumn 2017 ain't over yet. Let's wait and see.

base M2 VIN design:


M2 Competition VIN design - before:


M2 Competition VIN design - now:
Name:  M2_Comp_VIN_pic_1.jpg
Views: 2152
Size:  14.4 KB

base M2 VIN design:


M2 Competition VIN design - before:


M2 Competition VIN design - now:
Name:  M2_Comp_VIN_pic_2.jpg
Views: 4197
Size:  10.8 KB

For these results: VIN Decoder + (for example) VB08885 (source: here).
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      12-02-2017, 01:10 PM   #1193
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It’s weird we haven’t seen one test mule with new mirrors. You would think they would have to test for wind noise at the very least. Not something they can just slap on last second.
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      12-02-2017, 02:11 PM   #1194
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Think VB08888 may have a red start stop button (ala M5)
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Last edited by as7920; 12-02-2017 at 02:20 PM..
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      12-02-2017, 03:12 PM   #1195
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I hope there is an M button, and upon pressing the voice of Adele says "you megac$unt"
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      12-02-2017, 07:36 PM   #1196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
And another USA-spec M2 Competition logged since a few weeks got built last week.

The list known so far (source: public BMW VIN decoder + thread):

M2 Competition - USA (2U73) | F87 (MUE) | COUPE | LL (= LHD) | S55 | 3.0 | 302 kW (= 410 hp [metric] or 405 hp [USA]):

- WBS2U7C53KVB08868 = M-DCT (BSM) (Oct 12, 2016)
- WBS2U7C55KVB08869 = M-DCT (BSM) (Oct 14, 2016)
- WBS2U7C51KVB08870 = M-DCT (BSM) (Oct 17, 2016)
- WBS2U7C53KVB08871 = M-DCT (BSM) (Oct 18, 2016)
- WBS2U7C55KVB08872 = 6MT (BSM) (Oct 18, 2016)
- WBS2U7C57KVB08873 = M-DCT (BSM) (Oct 18, 2016)
- WBS2U7C59KVB08874 = M-DCT (BSM) (Apr 21, 2017)
- WBS2U7C50KVB08875 = 6MT (LBB) (Apr 21, 2017)
- WBS2U7C52KVB08876 = 6MT (AW) (Apr 28, 2017)
- WBS2U7C54KVB08877 = 6MT (BSM) (Apr 26, 2017)
- WBS2U7C56KVB08878 = M-DCT (BSM+orange) (Apr 26, 2017)
- WBS2U7C58KVB08879 = M-DCT (BSM) (Apr 27, 2017)
- WBS2U7C54KVB08880 = 6MT (BSM) (Apr 27, 2017)
- WBS2U7C56KVB08881 = M-DCT (AW) (Jul 13, 2017)
- WBS2U7C58KVB08882 = M-DCT (AW) (Sep 21, 2017)
- WBS2U7C5XKVB08883 = 6MT (HS) (Sep 28, 2017)
- WBS2U7C51KVB08884 = M-DCT (SO+orange) (Nov 14, 2017)
- WBS2U7C53KVB08885 = M-DCT (HS) (Nov 14, 2017)
- WBS2U7C55KVB08886 = M-DCT (LBB) (Nov 15, 2017)
- WBS2U7C57KVB08887 = 6MT (BSM+orange) (Nov 16, 2017)
- WBS2U7C59KVB08888 = M-DCT (HS) (Nov 14, 2017)
A public BMW VIN decoder reveals that 3 new USA-spec entries have been scheduled (not built yet):

- WBS2U7C50KVB08889 = M-DCT (HS)
- WBS2U7C57KVB08890 = 6MT (HS+orange)
- WBS2U7C59KVB08891 = M-DCT (AW)

The M-DCT HS is a Canadian spec for PR campaign purposes (more likely for a promo video than for a cinema movie). Got the 437M wheels though (instead of the new optional 788M wheels):



And as before: still zero test mules with Mineral Grey body color.
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      12-03-2017, 05:42 AM   #1197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
It’s weird we haven’t seen one test mule with new mirrors. You would think they would have to test for wind noise at the very least. Not something they can just slap on last second.
I'm also surprised we haven't seen any sunset orange test mules. Many have been built according to the leaked VINS.
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      12-03-2017, 08:13 AM   #1198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
We've already seen views from VIN land showing the shape of new side mirrors for the M2 Competition (see here) and hinting to optional different back seats (see here).
Detail: it appears that recently the shape of the glass inside the side mirrors has been added.
For the rest: no info surfaced yet about the M2 Competition reveal. Forum fellow MR. quoted January/February 2018 for release + presentation in March 2018 during the Geneva International Motor Show (see here). The 1M was revealed late Autumn 2010 (BMW 1M press release: Dec 10, 2010). Autumn 2017 ain't over yet. Let's wait and see.
After more and more digging and looking at what happened with the M3 CS release, I feel BMW M is taking a different route than the past years, also because there is so much that is coming from BMW the release calendar is overflowing. M3 CS first press drive is in May, so that is freaking far away.

Geneva release would be wonderful, but with July production start, I have a feeling that BMW M thinks that the M2 Competition might not be important enough for Geneva. I could easily see them showing something like a new M8 (Concept), final production X7 or Z4, or the 8-Series Gran Coupe there and not the M2 Competition yet. Although last year they only had the 5-Series Touring and the LCI 4-series I believe.

Now let's look at the other options, because I feel that staring only at Geneva is not a good move... Detroit, not gonna happen, too close and show is not important anymore for many brands. And the M3 CS would normally have been there, and it was now at LA. Also it is too far away from the production start, we need to be after Geneva.

Another point is that we might have to consider that BMW M wants to introduce the M2 Competition as close to its production start since BMW M want to milk the current M2 LCI sales before it is EOL. Introducing it now and M2 sales might slow down, because everyone wants the new one.

So what other shows do we have before July? N24 in May? New York International Auto Show? Beijing Motor Show? Let's not hope it is going to happen, but my gut feeling says that we might have to wait longer than Geneva.

MR

Last edited by MR.; 12-03-2017 at 08:22 AM..
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      12-03-2017, 10:56 PM   #1199
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Strange about the mirrors. You'd think they'd be on the test mules after all apparently they lend to "aerodynamics" /s

Looking forward to P/N
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      12-04-2017, 03:51 AM   #1200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Strange about the mirrors. You'd think they'd be on the test mules after all apparently they lend to "aerodynamics" /s

Looking forward to P/N
Look back at the 1M mules... Same thing And be aware aerodynamics are not tested on the road, but in a wind tunnel and mainly with computers.

The test mules we do not see are used in the wind tunnel.

MR
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      12-04-2017, 10:58 AM   #1201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Look back at the 1M mules... Same thing And be aware aerodynamics are not tested on the road, but in a wind tunnel and mainly with computers.

The test mules we do not see are used in the wind tunnel.

MR
TY, that helps clear up some confusion on my part.
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      12-05-2017, 08:16 PM   #1202
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so basically the whole m235 mirrors were better than m3 mirrors at aerodynamics was just a lie (not that it got us just saying are they gonna let this statement just slip by and be forgotten???)
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      12-06-2017, 12:35 AM   #1203
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Originally Posted by maliderosF87 View Post
so basically the whole m235 mirrors were better than m3 mirrors at aerodynamics was just a lie (not that it got us just saying are they gonna let this statement just slip by and be forgotten???)
Remember that it's not just aerodynamics, it's also noise targets. I don't honestly think they'd lie about the exclusion of them on the current car; it was probably for legit reasons if they are saying it is.

Possibly with the "Competition" name they threw one of those out the window.

Alternatively, it's been said that the nose is being somewhat redesigned (partially to add front parking sensors?) and that might change the equation around the mirrors.
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      12-06-2017, 04:11 AM   #1204
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Really seems like BMW is stuffing everything into the M2 Competition which could have also been (optional) in the regular M2. Unless the price tag is really high I'm really pissed off.
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      12-06-2017, 05:52 AM   #1205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZPrime View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by maliderosF87 View Post
so basically the whole m235 mirrors were better than m3 mirrors at aerodynamics was just a lie (not that it got us just saying are they gonna let this statement just slip by and be forgotten???)
Remember that it's not just aerodynamics, it's also noise targets. I don't honestly think they'd lie about the exclusion of them on the current car; it was probably for legit reasons if they are saying it is.
Possibly with the "Competition" name they threw one of those out the window.
Alternatively, it's been said that the nose is being somewhat redesigned (partially to add front parking sensors?) and that might change the equation around the mirrors.
See post #933 of this thread.

And, yes, the test mules camouflage suggests changes to the M2 front end.
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      12-06-2017, 03:55 PM   #1206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyyrat View Post
Really seems like BMW is stuffing everything into the M2 Competition which could have also been (optional) in the regular M2. Unless the price tag is really high I'm really pissed off.
Price of M2 Comp will be up to the buyer. Besides the detuned S55, everything new will be an option.
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      12-06-2017, 04:41 PM   #1207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyyrat View Post
Really seems like BMW is stuffing everything into the M2 Competition which could have also been (optional) in the regular M2. Unless the price tag is really high I'm really pissed off.
Price of M2 Comp will be up to the buyer. Besides the detuned S55, everything new will be an option.
A couple of posts from the past about the 'à la carte' approach, influencing the pricing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
About price-point speculation: to me it seems that all depends on what total package you expect to get for the M2 CS base price. So please specify in your comments what will feature on the car for your price-guesstimates. Otherwise we're all talking at different frequencies: noise.

If BMW goes for a 'stock loaded' strategy (all bells 'n whistles as stock), the car will undoubtedly have a cool set-up, but the M2 CS base price may penetrate very deep inside M3/M4 price-point territory + Hobson's Choice (a free choice in which only one thing is offered. Because a person may refuse to accept what is offered, the two options are taking it or taking nothing. In other words, one may "take it or leave it". The phrase is said to have originated with Thomas Hobson (1544–1631), a livery stable owner in Cambridge, England, who offered customers the choice of either taking the horse in his stall nearest to the door or taking none at all).

If, on the other hand, BMW applies the Porsche 'à la carte' approach, requiring to pay for spicy extras, the M2 CS base price could be kept pretty competitive. But then the M2 CS with zero options (a so-called 'stripper') risks to be quite similar to the base M2 (except for the S55 engine of course, a few colors and maybe some tweaks here and there currently covered by camouflage) + all base M2 creature comfort options could be stashed inside the M2 CS options list accompanied by a couple of more track-oriented goodies (uprated wheels/brakes/seats, etc.). More choice to personalize, from sober till full-blown.

So what do you reckon would be the best strategy for the M2 CS: 'stock loaded', 'à la carte' or something in-between ?

Personally I think that the M4 CS may lead the way as tell-tale sign for the M2 CS.

And about the transmission discussion: it has been discussed to death that BMW could make all car aficionados happy by offering both M-DCT and 6MT for the M2 CS. In a January 2017 interview BMW boss Frank Van Meel seemed to suggest that BMW had captured that enthusiasts vibe (here). Let's not give up hope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Let's tackle the track goodies and transmission conundrum with a bit of logical reasoning.

First imagine how you think BMW will position/market the M2 CS and its expected main use by target customers: daily driver ? mainly (extra) urban ? mainly track ? or a mix of all that ? Don't confuse 'versatile' with 'jack of all trades, master of none'. Subsequently, do the same exercise with the base M2 and compare your answers (whilst keeping in mind about the base M2 that "every adventure requires a first step"). Then ask yourself: would it make sense that BMW offers more choice this time around ? Maybe asking yourself that question, is already answering it.

Although in the end BMW could prove us all wrong, I trust that they will walk the smart road by offering choices, as this may offer an advantage over the competition, garner interest of a broad market of potential customers and allow to keep the base price (zero options) attractive. Let's face it: Porsche brilliantly masters the highly profitable 'à la carte' (personalization) success formula: your wish is our command. This may inspire BMW as well (of course to the extent that it's compatible with production facility possibilities and, probably, the M3/M4 hierarchy).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Commented earlier (see posts #591 and #694 in the other dedicated M2 CS thread) that I trust that BMW M will walk the smart road by offering choices (transmission, brakes, wheels, seats, etc.: standard versus optional), as this may offer an advantage over the competition, garner interest of a broad market of potential customers and allow to keep the M2 CS base price (zero options) attractive.

If BMW M wouldn't do that, it would IMHO miss a golden opportunity in many ways.

And remember about the bigger brother M4 CS: "not a limited series, just limited by production capacity" confirmed BMW M CEO Frank Van Meel in May 2017 (source: here - in the same interview he also confirmed that the production volume of the base M2 will be increased). IMHO it makes sense to expect to hear that same phrase again at the future M2 CS launch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
No idea about pricing yet, but don't forget the 'à la carte' approach of making the more track-oriented goodies optional (think for example one-piece seats, bigger brakes, lightweight wheels, delimited V-max), allowing to keep the M2 CS base price attractive. Don't expect all that to be standard features. IMHO that would make sense as strategy to position the M2 CS in the ///M model line-up.

When loaded with options:
  • tick all boxes of the base M2 options list and you're still approximately at the lowest end of the M3/M4 price range;
  • do the same with the M2 CS options list, and you'll end up deep into the M3/M4 price range.
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      12-07-2017, 04:04 AM   #1208
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2 questions for Artemis if I may.
Back to my previous (i.e. only!) topic on residual values. I’ve read through the whole thread now, my understanding on M2 S55 Competition launch timeline as follows;
- Details to be officially released most likely end Jan/earlyFeb 2018
- Car to be revealed at subsequent show (Geneva or possibly earlier)
- Production to start May or thereabouts
- Car likely to go on sale June/July

As to the car itself, my understanding of summary details as follows:
- Key change is de-tuned (400/410PS) S55 twin turbo M3/M4 engine to replace current N55 as base (i.e. Competition) model
- N55 engined M2 to cease production prior to switch to S55
- More factory fitted option availability versus current N55 LCI model e.g. uprated brakes and seats.
- New colours – Hockenheim Silver and Sunset Orange with Metallic Grey to be no longer available
- Definite price increase for the S55 base model. This seems to be the one remaining area where there’s significant variance in forum members views on how great the level of price rise will be

I’ve put my name down for a Competition vehicle at my local dealer (Cooper group, #3 on the list I’m told) who is asking for £1k deposit but I’m holding out at this stage on the basis that this would be my 3rd “M” car so they know I’m genuine. Dealer says it is a BMW UK requirement but I’m questioning that (any views out there?). My current M2 DCT (Jan 17 build so pre LCI) is not a daily driver so I could live without albeit like the rest of you I love the car. I’m still chewing over whether I put the car up for sale now given current known resale prices (I bought new so I’d take a hit of course but not too savage) or keep and trade in against the Competition vehicle as and when it arrives. My car is on a 2 year PCP with BMWFS (5.9% APR) ending in March 2019 so contractually at least I’m not in any rush. Question I have is what do you think will happen to residual values on current N55 vehicles in the coming months. From my perspective, it can go 1 of 2 ways:

1/ Price rise of base S55 Competition vehicle is 'modest’ e.g. €3.5k/£3.5k. In this case, presume N55 residual values will start to drop significantly once official announcement on Competition vehicle and pricing is made. Stocks of existing new N55 LCI unregistered vehicles will need to attract higher discounts and incentives in order to shift thus feeding through to used vehicle prices. In this case I’d be better off looking to sell my current car asap.

2/ Price rise of base S55 Competition vehicle is more significant e.g. €7k/£7k or possibly more. In this case, S55 becomes more out of reach to potential buyers thus ‘protecting’ existing N55 values as the only entry level “M” car price point available to a significant number of purchasers. This would also help BMW shift remaining existing new, unregistered N55 stock. In this case I’d be better off keeping my current car and waiting for the S55 Competition vehicle order to materialise presumably late 2018 or early 2019.

Option 2 would be my preferred option as I get to have my cake (keep existing M2) and eat it (get S55 M2 before my PCP comes to an end). Downside is option 2 assumes a higher price walk for the S55 car but you can’t have it all ways.

Any thoughts at this stage on how the pricing / residual value scenario is likely to play out as I’d appreciate the benefit of your knowledge and insight. I fully understand it’s my call ultimately but it will assist my decision whether to put my current car up for sale now or whether to wait and see. Decisions decisions…..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1969 View Post
2 questions for Artemis if I may.
Back to my previous (i.e. only!) topic on residual values. I’ve read through the whole thread now, my understanding on M2 S55 Competition launch timeline as follows;
- Details to be officially released most likely end Jan/earlyFeb 2018
- Car to be revealed at subsequent show (Geneva or possibly earlier)
- Production to start May or thereabouts
- Car likely to go on sale June/July

As to the car itself, my understanding of summary details as follows:
- Key change is de-tuned (400/410PS) S55 twin turbo M3/M4 engine to replace current N55 as base (i.e. Competition) model
- N55 engined M2 to cease production prior to switch to S55
- More factory fitted option availability versus current N55 LCI model e.g. uprated brakes and seats.
- New colours – Hockenheim Silver and Sunset Orange with Metallic Grey to be no longer available
- Definite price increase for the S55 base model. This seems to be the one remaining area where there’s significant variance in forum members views on how great the level of price rise will be

I’ve put my name down for a Competition vehicle at my local dealer (Cooper group, #3 on the list I’m told) who is asking for £1k deposit but I’m holding out at this stage on the basis that this would be my 3rd “M” car so they know I’m genuine. Dealer says it is a BMW UK requirement but I’m questioning that (any views out there?). My current M2 DCT (Jan 17 build so pre LCI) is not a daily driver so I could live without albeit like the rest of you I love the car. I’m still chewing over whether I put the car up for sale now given current known resale prices (I bought new so I’d take a hit of course but not too savage) or keep and trade in against the Competition vehicle as and when it arrives. My car is on a 2 year PCP with BMWFS (5.9% APR) ending in March 2019 so contractually at least I’m not in any rush. Question I have is what do you think will happen to residual values on current N55 vehicles in the coming months. From my perspective, it can go 1 of 2 ways:

1/ Price rise of base S55 Competition vehicle is 'modest’ e.g. €3.5k/£3.5k. In this case, presume N55 residual values will start to drop significantly once official announcement on Competition vehicle and pricing is made. Stocks of existing new N55 LCI unregistered vehicles will need to attract higher discounts and incentives in order to shift thus feeding through to used vehicle prices. In this case I’d be better off looking to sell my current car asap.

2/ Price rise of base S55 Competition vehicle is more significant e.g. €7k/£7k or possibly more. In this case, S55 becomes more out of reach to potential buyers thus ‘protecting’ existing N55 values as the only entry level “M” car price point available to a significant number of purchasers. This would also help BMW shift remaining existing new, unregistered N55 stock. In this case I’d be better off keeping my current car and waiting for the S55 Competition vehicle order to materialise presumably late 2018 or early 2019.

Option 2 would be my preferred option as I get to have my cake (keep existing M2) and eat it (get S55 M2 before my PCP comes to an end). Downside is option 2 assumes a higher price walk for the S55 car but you can’t have it all ways.

Any thoughts at this stage on how the pricing / residual value scenario is likely to play out as I’d appreciate the benefit of your knowledge and insight. I fully understand it’s my call ultimately but it will assist my decision whether to put my current car up for sale now or whether to wait and see. Decisions decisions…..
My thoughts are this:

Price rise of the M2 in the UK will be to 52k base (plus options taking it up to close to 60k), which keeps it in line with a specced Cayman S/GTS.

BMW are not worried about the M2 vs M4 debate from a sales point of view as most people will have preference to a particular model. Luxury vs Sports....So I dont think the price differentiaition will be that great

I dont think the M2 will take a significant hit price wise with the introduction of the Comp. I ordered my M2 at 8am on launch day in October 2015 and took delivery march 2017. Even if you order a M2 comp your unlikley to get one before the end of 2018

Thats before we even address the horrendous sound of the S55

M2 with some minor mods are showing 420hp and 440lb ft of torque quite easily. You can mod the S55 to more crazy levels, but ive driven a tuned M2 and its already wheel spinning under full boost. Chasis is at limit of being fun/frustrating with even a moderate increase in power.

Lastly on deposit - total lie. There is only 1 official BMW UK dealer (Mayfair) the rest are all franchised. BMW UK are not allowed to take any deposit until an official annoucement, only a name indicating interest which doesnt count for much. So if you are told to put a deposit its the franchised dealer asking for it

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      12-07-2017, 07:23 AM   #1210
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Originally Posted by M2GB View Post
My thoughts are this:



M2 with some minor mods are showing 420hp and 440lb ft of torque quite easily. You can mod the S55 to more crazy levels, but ive driven a tuned M2 and its already wheel spinning under full boost. Chasis is at limit of being fun/frustrating with even a moderate increase in power.
FBO BM3 cars out there are having a difficult time barely cracking 400 whp on 91 (not sure what you guys have in the UK). And that means you have to push the stock fueling and turbos to the limit, which I am not a fan of. This is the advantage of the S55, even though it is not the most pleasant sounding exhaust note. A mild tune bringing it to stock M3/4 levels would mean little to no added stress on the drive train. Having driven the M2 and M4 on track I believe a bit more power is to be welcomed. With the correct suspension/wheel/tire setup this chassis could easily handle 440 whp.
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