[stren]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

That is the kind of thing someone that doesn't use the paddles much would do. I sometimes have it in Manual mode just to be able to upshift and let the car downshift on its own. But if I'm trying to be super awesome and downshift into a turn, I'm always pre-emptively downshifting. Even in a manual, I wouldn't wait until I'm halfway into my turn to decide to downshift.

Agreed you would preemptively downshift if you care. The thing is once you're letting the car downshift for you when you don't care then you're not really using it in manual mode and you also have no idea in the corner which gear you are now in and you might be lagging heavily at that point if it's now too low. I'm not sure about all BMW automatics in manual mode as I've only had test drives in bmw automatics, but with infiniti the car still puts the clutch in sometimes as you slow down meaning you really have no idea what the actual engine RPM is and whether you should shift or not.

I really see them working well on the track, but in day to day, I've never met anyone but myself try and use them "manually" apart from the occasional kickdown request (though to be fair the people I know/meet are not bmw forum users lol). For me with the g37 I found "manual mode" of the auto just a PITA and most of the time on the street I ended up just letting it do it's own thing and losing that driver involvement.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by stren

Agreed you would preemptively downshift if you care. The thing is once you're letting the car downshift for you when you don't care then you're not really using it in manual mode and you also have no idea in the corner which gear you are now in and you might be lagging heavily at that point if it's now too low. I'm not sure about all BMW automatics in manual mode as I've only had test drives in bmw automatics, but with infiniti the car still puts the clutch in sometimes as you slow down meaning you really have no idea what the actual engine RPM is and whether you should shift or not.

I really see them working well on the track, but in day to day, I've never met anyone but myself try and use them "manually" apart from the occasional kickdown request (though to be fair the people I know/meet are not bmw forum users lol). For me with the g37 I found "manual mode" of the auto just a PITA and most of the time on the street I ended up just letting it do it's own thing and losing that driver involvement.

Never felt the dct or zf8 engine brake. It only downshifts to prevent the engine from stalling. What I meant by letting it downshift for me is when I really just want to bomb around and let the engine hit higher rpms but not really trying to be engaged in aggressive driving. But when I am driving more aggressively or spiritedly, I will always downshift preemptively. For me it has become second nature almost to know where my car is and how I need to shift. But I use manual mode almost all the time. Practicing is essential in anything. No one became great at stick shift over night either.

[hoyasaxa]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Never felt the dct or zf8 engine brake.

I echo this on the ZF8. Interesting to hear you say that on the DCT, though. The DSG in my GTI definitely engine brakes.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

I echo this on the ZF8. Interesting to hear you say that on the DCT, though. The DSG in my GTI definitely engine brakes.

I think I misspoke. I was trying to say that the transmission doesn't "apply clutch" in anticipation of a gear change. I think that's what the other poster mentioned. If I let off the gas, the transmission doesn't just start doing things without some user input except for when the engine would otherwise stall.

[hoyasaxa]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I think I misspoke. I was trying to say that the transmission doesn't "apply clutch" in anticipation of a gear change. I think that's what the other poster mentioned. If I let off the gas, the transmission doesn't just start doing things without some user input except for when the engine would otherwise stall.

Ah ok. That makes sense.

When you're braking, you experience it downshifting then, right, to assist deceleration?

[NateDog07V]

Random question for those who have driven the M3/M4 with rev match... it obviously is geared toward making perfect downshifts without the need to throttle blip, but if I sloppily upshift from 1st to 2nd where you would typically get a little jerkiness/bucking from a standard manual, does the rev match smooth this out as well ?

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

Ah ok. That makes sense.

When you're braking, you experience it downshifting then, right, to assist deceleration?

Not in manual mode. In Sport and/or S mode it will maintain higher RPMs (downshifting to maintain power so you can exit quickly out of a turn, for instance). In manual mode it will let you drag it out for those times you want to power out of a turn in 8th gear

[dammitcubs]

I'm totally getting this car in manual only. As much as DCT will give you better lap times and performance. There is something about the manual that can't be described. and who knows if this will be my last manual so i want to make it count!

[Diver]

I used launch control once just to see if it works. Nailing the pedal fast works as well. The DCT senses it and gives the engine a tiny bit of time to rev up.

Most of my driving is in the heart of Houston. Traffic is miserable making a stick inconvenient to say the least. Involved yes, but not what you want to be involved with.

[moldcad]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

The transmission is not horrible, just driver inexperience. Driving an SMG is not just yanking back on the paddle shifters which is what most people believe. Just like a three pedal manual transmission, the SMG rewards good input and ruthlessly punishes negative input. There is definitely technique and practice improves this. When I drive my M6 every day, I am as smooth as glass and passengers can hardly tell when I shift the car. When I don't, the first few miles are a bit strained. As I stated earlier, the car really punishes the driver with negative feedback for ham-fisted driving.

That said, the true place for the SMG is the race track. THIS is when the SMG comes alive and shines brighter than any manual transmission could ever hope, no matter the driver of the MT. WOT upshifts, not problem. Lightening fast downshifts, no problem. Perfect RPM matching, done and dusted. Bring it all...the SMG will respond. Oh, I almost forgot...the upshifts in WOT...WOW! The car lets you know that this isn't a milk run...you realize very quickly that you are on a mission!!

If I sound like an SMG proponent, it is because I am. I feel that this is a much maligned and poorly understood technology that, once mastered, provides a sense of accomplishment that few technical devices can match!!

Cheers-mk

I used to have an early generation SMG in my non-M, E46 330i -- and I must tell you all MKSixer said is true. While certainly not as fast as its later incarnations on the M cars (not to mention today's DCT or even the ZF 8AT I have now), it was a gearbox one simply had to learn how to use; not just a "sequential paddle / joystick automated MT". I liked it very much exactly due to the fact it was so demanding on me! But unfortunately - after 10 years of daily driving my E46 - it was that very part of it that put the end to my joy of having a true bimmer; with the gearbox itself, as well as the clutch, still in great working condition - the mechatronics went south and no BMW service in Poland was able to do anything about it apart from replacing everything, for the price waaay higher than the market value of the entire car. So - much to my unhappiness - I had to sell the car away; after 2 years of frustration from driving the F10 528xi, I ended up with my M235i whose gearbox - while lightningly faster - is also a bit boring compared to my SMG experience...