[supra93]

Dave From Toyota - What We Learned In Breck About The 200...

I wanted to get this thread up before I forget a lot of what the Toyota rep, Dave, told us last night at dinner.

First, I'll do my best to recap his credibility. This guy was involved with product development of the 200 Series Land Cruiser about 10 years ago. He worked with the Toyota engineers in Japan and in many other countries on various continents, testing every aspect of the 200.

Interestingly, he also is involved with product development for just about every other North American market Toyota as well, so he had some interesting insight into Toyota product planning, development, and execution.

This guy was great - the real deal - and he patiently answered a LOT of our questions. Here's some of the info we gathered from him:

- When is the 300 Series Land Cruiser coming out?
--There is not a date yet. The 200 Series was supposed to be a 9-year product lifecycle, but it's already at 10 years and there is not a 300 Series in sight yet. It sounds like it's coming, but we are probably a few years out at this point.

- Why not a diesel in an LC?
-- Dave pointed specifically to the Cummins Diesel in the new Titan as exhibit A as to why Toyota will NOT be putting a diesel in the LC. He pointed to the attributes of a diesel: torque/towing ability, fuel economy and durability. Basically, Toyota feels that the current 5.7 V8 in the 200 is a tank and checks all those boxes. Further, with US emissions regulations, Toyota would have to choke out a diesel to the degree where consumers would not get 2 out of 3 of the benefits. Fuel economy would not be great and power would not be great. We already have amazing longevity from the 5.7, so Toyota is not going to spend millions to add a diesel power plant to the US LC.

- What power plant is being developed for the 300 series LC?
-- This is interesting - Dave alluded to there definitely being a new motor under development for the 300. He clearly knew things he was not at liberty to tell us here, but I took his hedging to mean they are probably looking at some kind of turbo powerplant.

-Why doesn't the 200 come with a locker?
--Dave doesn't really know is the best I could determine from his response. He referenced his conversation with the head engineer from Toyota from 10 years ago where Dave asked that exact same question. Dave was apparently met with a Japanese expletive-ridden response from the engineer, but no clear answer. We asked Dave if it was related to QDR (quality/durability/reliability) and Dave emphatically said that wasn't it. Dave said that the direction for Toyota was to continue to use traction aids such as ATRAC and CRAWL.

-Will there be a TRD Pro version of the 200 or 300 LC?
-- Doesn't sound like it. Dave said, "wouldn't you rather turn to the after market to make your rig exactly how you want it?" -- I think this was maybe a carrot to ARB and Slee who were also in the room, but I personally found it to be a dodge. I think that if Toyota actually released a TRD Pro 200 - lifted suspension, bigger (maybe 34") tires, maybe a locker, etc. that they would actually be able to sell them (I know that would have been my starting point for my build.)

- Will Toyota ever put steel bumpers on a 4x4?
-- No. Not going to happen. Never.

- Will Toyota ever again develop a shorter wheelbase 4x4 to compete with the Wrangler? What happened to the FJ?
-- So the FJ was designed for a 7 year product cycle and was intended to be killed off at that point, which it was. I always thought this was related to CAFE standards and Toyota needing to have a higher average MPG for their products. Not so, according to Dave. If I recall correctly, he essentially said the business case for the FJ just wasn't as strong, given the sales of 4Runner and Tacoma. He went on to say, very importantly, that the sole reason Toyota hasn't gone after Jeep with a direct competitor is the liability. Basically, the lawyers at Toyota do everything in their power to keep the company from getting sued. A short wheelbase vehicle is more likely to rollover and Toyota just isn't willing to deal with that. Dave said "we already get sued all the time."

- Will the LC ever be a unit-body construction:
-- It will always be a BoF (body on frame) vehicle, based on the capability required of the vehicle.

- Will the FJ Cruiser ever come back?
-- No. No plans to bring it back again.

- Any info on the upcoming Toyota Supra?
-- Release date early 2019; should have north of 400hp, expect a manual option. Dave would not comment on powertrain other than to indicate it was a joint build with BMW and it will NOT be using BMW's ubiquitous 3.0 twin turbo inline 6. He said it may have a 3.5 v6 turbo and there may be a hybrid variant.

That's most of what I recall from the conversation. An important, if not somewhat disturbing takeway, was that Toyota doesn't really build vehicles FOR the off-road enthusiast. Certainly not to the degree many of the LCDC members use their trucks. I took from Dave's conversation with us that Toyota wants their vehicles to be tough and last forever, but that actual capability is lower on the list for them. The main reason is liability (from what I gathered) - the more capable you build and market the vehicle, the more likely you are to get sued when people flip it, roll it or otherwise make poor decisions.

Dave specifically said that when they were developing the 200, they wanted to make sure the vehicle had a "normal service life" - but that it could and would have that normal service life in the harshest of environments; even environments that don't even have roads.

I hope that helps - please chime in if you were there and I missed some things!

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/dav...e-200.1003052/

Spied testing in CA